P.O.S. VHF Mill and CADBLU SUCKS!!! I know more technical stuff then they do.

[Sevan P]

CAP has helped me numerous times when I did something stupid or was just curious about capabilities of the software etc.. Fantastic Tech support! Thanks Bob!!

Sevan, what made you choose the VHF over another Roland or imes machine?

Interesting, you would also have had a 5 axis mill.

Don't remind me. My friend at a large milling center told my old boss which I came back to work for that the Rolands were nothing but trouble. Also that they now use the VHF machine and it is better.

The VHF is built way better then the roland and is a great machine when it works like it should. But I am still lacking the 5th axis and I dearly miss caming on Sum3D! I miss the 340i as well. it is like the VHF but on crack and with a mechanical touch off so broken tool or not not gouging the touch off!

We are in the works of opening up a milling center with Dellcam and 3Shape support for the west coast in a few months. Machines are still up in the air on what to purchase, I have many options to choose from.

 

[Sevan P]

I know Bob, But my experience with the Roland and Sum3D on FCZr was that no matter how much out of occlusion I made them in 3shape it would always be high on the model and needed to be adjusted. Now with the VHF mill and the CNC cam that comes from the MFG I have dead on drop in FCZr, stain and glaze and out the door. Same design techniques and all. I love the fit i'm getting now. But lacking the 5th axis for screw retained implant bridges and abutments and big bridges.

 

[BobCDT]

Sevan,
We design FZ crowns out of occlusion by 0.2 MM and there dead on. Once in a while we have a high crown. When we do we go back and look at the scan and design file and generally find the bite was off.
Sorry, I can't provide a comparative working analysis of the Roland and VHF mills as I have never worked with a VHF. But, i really don't believe labs should be buying into 4 axis mills.

 

[Sevan P]

I know Bob, I think is was the strategies the were given to us back then that were throwing the occ off. I think 4axis are good to have for stuff your gonna mill at zero inclination, but anything that needs to be inclined should be cut in a 5axis mill. Now will all the lollipop tools you can achieve great end results with a little bit more time added in the mill. I know all about the benefits of 5axis over 4axis, I have works on both types of mills.

 

[YMS96]

I feel terrible for you. Just an FYI, on occasion we run into a problem with a new mill sale or one under warranty. Here's how we deal with it provided CAP sells the mill. I am sharing this info as you can use it with CB as possible ways to cross the finish line to predictable productivity.
1. Our support team will work to resolve all problems over the phone.
2. If they can't fix it, we mill for customers at cost so you maintain production with no increase in cost of manufacturing. We will do this for as long as it takes to get you running.
3. CAP owns loaner mills. If tech support can't fix it over the phone we ship you a loaner. Once in a while we are short on loaners and are now addressing adding additional loaners to our inventory.
4. Once you get your loaner and we receive your mill we fix it or we get the manufacture to replace it.
On large frame mills the loaner mill does not work as well so we will send out trained technicians for diagnostics and repair. Again, we mill at cost until you are up and running.
I'm providing this info as a possible path for you to follow with CB to achieve resolution and also stay productive while down.
Good luck.

Strange..CadBlu does all of that too (I have multiple products from them). I think the OP's problem though is that since he's using aftermarket burs it probably voids his warranty or any loaner coverage (not sure though). Bob, will you send a customer a loaner if they are using aftermarket parts (stuff not purchased from CAP) in a mill that they got from you? I doubt it.

 

[BobCDT]

The warranty on Roland and Imes mills is actually a manufacturers warranty. There is nothing stated by either Roland or Imes that would void a warranty for using Non CAP (or manufacturer) tools or materials. We may have more difficulty supporting a mill when other tools and or materials are used but the support and warranty would remain in effect. Yes, we would provide support, milling at cost and a loaner regardless of materials and tools used. The only thing that could void the warranty would be putting a non approved material in a mill. For instance, you can't mill titanium in a Roland. Trying to do so could void a warranty.

 

[Sevan P]

Strange..CadBlu does all of that too (I have multiple products from them). I think the OP's problem though is that since he's using aftermarket burs it probably voids his warranty or any loaner coverage (not sure though). Bob, will you send a customer a loaner if they are using aftermarket parts (stuff not purchased from CAP) in a mill that they got from you? I doubt it.

No, aftermarket of not, these sierra tools have been proven over and over and over again to work on the VHF mill period! regardless if it is the weiland mini, CADBLU EZ Mill, Talladiums Master Mill or Jensens mill. Internal they are all identical, SAME electronic touch off setup, Jensen has a different holder for the LAVA material, Ivocalrs Weiland mini has a different body. But other then that they all run the same CNC controller Glidwell Brux-ir mill has a different cam but they all have the same internals. So why is it that on my mill the touch off on the sierra tools crash the machine? One simple reason a weak signal. This is what CB fails to understand and wants me to go through the entire MFG tool use and BS to simple say your machine is fine. NO SH!T my machine is fine it works with non coated tools. DUH!!!!

 

[Sevan P]

For instance, you can't mill titanium in a Roland. Trying to do so could void a warranty.

You have to be an idiot to try that.

 

[YMS96]

The warranty on Roland and Imes mills is actually a manufacturers warranty. There is nothing stated by either Roland or Imes that would void a warranty for using Non CAP (or manufacturer) tools or materials. We may have more difficulty supporting a mill when other tools and or materials are used but the support and warranty would remain in effect. Yes, we would provide support, milling at cost and a loaner regardless of materials and tools used. The only thing that could void the warranty would be putting a non approved material in a mill. For instance, you can't mill titanium in a Roland. Trying to do so could void a warranty.

On the Roland website it specifically states that their warranty will not cover "Defects related to third-party applications, software, parts, components, or peripheral devices". Using non oem (or approved) burs seems like it would fit this category.

SevanP, curious now, how is milling now that you are using the manufacturers burs? Are you still having all of the problems you were having before?

 

[Glenn Kennedy]

YMS96

Roland DWX customers are free to use any tools that fit within the specifications provided in the users manual. If they are dimensionally correct they will fit the machine and work just fine. We had a customer that was using tools that had a smaller than spec shank diameter. Over time the tools slipped in the collet and rounded it out. Even though the machine was not at fault and the cause of the problem was clearly shown to the customer we replaced the collet at no cost under warranty. The customer was so pleased with our support that they added more DWX-50's to their production and continue to be a very happy, productive Roland and CAP customer.

In the end we bend over backwards to make sure our customers have a positive experience with our products and get the fastest return on investment.

-Glenn

 

[YMS96]

YMS96

Roland DWX customers are free to use any tools that fit within the specifications provided in the users manual. If they are dimensionally correct they will fit the machine and work just fine. We had a customer that was using tools that had a smaller than spec shank diameter. Over time the tools slipped in the collet and rounded it out. Even though the machine was not at fault and the cause of the problem was clearly shown to the customer we replaced the collet at no cost under warranty. The customer was so pleased with our support that they added more DWX-50's to their production and continue to be a very happy, productive Roland and CAP customer.

In the end we bend over backwards to make sure our customers have a positive experience with our products and get the fastest return on investment.

-Glenn

:clap2: I guess I should have gotten a Roland!
Are these repairs at the discretion of the re-seller though (does every re-seller have a different policy) or how does that work?

 

[Glenn Kennedy]

Roland handles all warranty coverage. The next time you are in the market for a mill please consider getting a Roland!

 

[Sevan P]

On the Roland website it specifically states that their warranty will not cover "Defects related to third-party applications, software, parts, components, or peripheral devices". Using non oem (or approved) burs seems like it would fit this category.

SevanP, curious now, how is milling now that you are using the manufacturers burs? Are you still having all of the problems you were having before?

The 2mm Sierra tool in the #1 position is cutting strong at 231 units and the CB 1mm coated is at 147 cuts since I replace the broken 1mm sierra tool. So I have one good 2mm sierra and a 1mm CD that have been cutting good so far no more dimples in the touch off plate. So for all those telling my the sierra tools are NOT compatible with the VHF mill, why is the 2mm still going strong? The signal is just weak enough for the 1mm to fail but not the .6mm and the 2mm. Go figure.

Glenn

I miss the Roland that Rico Has. After that Japanese Tech from Japan stop by the lab and ran a diagnostic test on the machine and changed the Chuck that thing has been a machine.

 

[harmonylab]

I feel terrible for you. Just an FYI, on occasion we run into a problem with a new mill sale or one under warranty. Here's how we deal with it provided CAP sells the mill. I am sharing this info as you can use it with CB as possible ways to cross the finish line to predictable productivity.
1. Our support team will work to resolve all problems over the phone.
2. If they can't fix it, we mill for customers at cost so you maintain production with no increase in cost of manufacturing. We will do this for as long as it takes to get you running.
3. CAP owns loaner mills. If tech support can't fix it over the phone we ship you a loaner. Once in a while we are short on loaners and are now addressing adding additional loaners to our inventory.
4. Once you get your loaner and we receive your mill we fix it or we get the manufacture to replace it.
On large frame mills the loaner mill does not work as well so we will send out trained technicians for diagnostics and repair. Again, we mill at cost until you are up and running.
I'm providing this info as a possible path for you to follow with CB to achieve resolution and also stay productive while down.
Good luck.

the policy is same at Kastle Mills I presume?

 

[jasonfrazier]

There seems to be to much bottom feeding on the VHF mill. If anyone needs help then please call me at 502-386-4885. Or email me at [email protected].

Jason

 

[Sevan P]

There seems to be to much bottom feeding on the VHF mill. If anyone needs help then please call me at 502-386-4885. Or email me at [email protected].

Jason

LOL

Hey Jason Good to see you on here. Those Brushes are killer.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Don't remind me. My friend at a large milling center told my old boss which I came back to work for that the Rolands were nothing but trouble. Also that they now use the VHF machine and it is better.

The VHF is built way better then the roland and is a great machine when it works like it should. But I am still lacking the 5th axis and I dearly miss caming on Sum3D! I miss the 340i as well. it is like the VHF but on crack and with a mechanical touch off so broken tool or not not gouging the touch off!

We are in the works of opening up a milling center with Dellcam and 3Shape support for the west coast in a few months. Machines are still up in the air on what to purchase, I have many options to choose from.

I used to have the pleasure of Sum3D and a 340i as well. Was SO MUCH FUN!!!

 

[Smithwick0208]

I have bought tools from 3 different vendors and I imagine from the packaging they are all reselling the same thing.

I milled 2 full pucks of singles today 47 units with a .01 margin line offset and did not have one blemish anywhere, I am not trying to brag but to help put some sanity to not fight a machine that works for others.

What CAM are you running? I have 18 months in on this machine now, its never needed to be calibrated, my plate has a tiny abrasion to it not any notch or hole like you said you had. I do take care of the machine daily,weekly monthly, I have not had to do anything but preventive cleaning and lube of the chuck as required in the manual.

Is this your first mill? Did it ever mill everything correct? I would not lie down and wait for CADBLU to do the right thing, I would hammer them to send someone to fix it/replace it.

Good luck

John, you are using the Wieland mini right? with what software? I have 4 Wieland minis on the zenotec adv software with Wieland burs and having major issues with thin crowns due to the measuring key divits. I am to the point now that i have to key and cal. about every week. I am currently testing them for resistance to see if I need to install amplifiers to lower it. We mill about 70-80 units a day on these machines and I have now been told that they are only rated for 50 units a day. Have you had to install an amplifier on your mill? How long have you had yours? How many hours are on your spindle? Have you had to replace anything on yours?

 

[BobCDT]

Hey all, Support is a big deal when purchasing a mill. This is often overlooked by many when purchasing technology. Technicians are generally not machinists and we all have deadlines to meet. We need quality support on all technology we become involved in. When purchasing a mill discuss support with any distributor you are considering doing buisness with. We should have a full understanding of what will happen if problems occur.

FYI, At CAP we support all mills we sell as follows.
Tech support is available by phone Mon-Fri 8:00-8:00 EST.
The vast majority of Mill support calls are straightened out in ten minutes or less.
If we can't fix it over the phone we recommend the lab send STL files to CAP so there is no loss of production time. CAP mills whatever is needed at cost.
In the event we can't fix the problem through telephone support we either get the mill to CAP or send a tech to the lab to fix it. Manufacturers and distributors should have no choice but to make these products work effectively.

 

[JohnWilson]

John, you are using the Wieland mini right? with what software? I have 4 Wieland minis on the zenotec adv software with Wieland burs and having major issues with thin crowns due to the measuring key divits. I am to the point now that i have to key and cal. about every week. I am currently testing them for resistance to see if I need to install amplifiers to lower it. We mill about 70-80 units a day on these machines and I have now been told that they are only rated for 50 units a day. Have you had to install an amplifier on your mill? How long have you had yours? How many hours are on your spindle? Have you had to replace anything on yours?

We mill about 100 units of ZI a week on this little mill , we have never replaced anything other than burs. Never calibrated since day one, have about 20 months on this little machine with absolutely no issues. We are running advanced cam and pushing the limits of this mill PAST what most are doing with it. It rocks! I would buy it again in a heart beat! We are exceedingly anal about cleaning and make sure our vacuum is running optimally. I just find it hard to believe that MY machine is that much more different than the guys that are having every conceivable issue that is driving them nuts.

It seems very confusing to me.

I am excitedly shopping for a 5x mill to do other more complex cases faster and a with a bit less tweaking that I have to do today.