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    P.O.S. VHF Mill and CADBLU SUCKS!!! I know more technical stuff then they do.

    Discussion in 'Dental-CAM' started by Sevan P, Jun 4, 2013.

    1. Sevan P
      Twisted

      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      So is anyone else having this many issues with your VHF mill? EZ mill, Master mill, Wieland Mini, Bruxir mill etc............? I have already run through both the touch off plates due to broken burs and re-milling the touch off plate, a 170.00 sierra 1mm tool just caused my latest re-mill on the third touch off plate, and I am about to go to the fourth one I haven't yet ordered!

      After every mill I dust off the touch off area clearing it from and left over ZR, PMMA or Wax, chuck maintenance once a week. And yet some how this P.O.S. mill finds a way to divit the touch off plate causing me to re-mill it. In a weeks period I already have re-mill the touch off plate twice and re-calibrated the mill.

      CadBlu couldn't even answer my question as to what the Node Diameter in the settings panel adjusted. They can't even figure out why and only in PMMA does the bur dig into the connects and run threw the margin where the connectors are.

      It seems like I have to fully clean this mill ever time I cut something in it. I clean off the touch off point for sure but give me a break I had a DWX-50 and an iMes 340 running non stop all day long wax, pmma and ZR and not one single issue. No but his little crap box need more babying then a new born baby. FML!!!

      Just curious to see if any one else hates this mill!!!

      phew....................

      Sevan
       
      Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
    2. ParkwayDental
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      ParkwayDental Well-Known Member Full Member

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      From what I have experienced with CadBlu with the printing side of things is they wouldn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Awful service.
       
    3. Sevan P
      Twisted

      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Tell me about it Tyler

      They told me they are not used to supplying technical support right on the sport over the phone, when I had to re-mill the touch off plate the first time, i raised hell! And they couldn't handle it, I was like WTF? LOL you guys suck i thought in my mind.

      So I figured out the admin pass and now have run completely through my third touch off plate. Completely different then the iMes and Roland with the mechanical touch off or measuring sensor, this uses a electrical current to measure so if you use a cheap tool or the coating of the tool has worn off then the signal doesn't connect but 15 cuts on a 170 coated sierra 1mm, come one this buy should hit over 300 cuts. My friend told me it might be the ground inside the machine that is loose. I never opened the machine i said, he said during shipment. possible but I doubt it. I think the mill I got is just crap. not even three months and way too many headaches already with both the machine and CADLBLU support and customer service.
       
    4. ParkwayDental
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      ParkwayDental Well-Known Member Full Member

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      If you can take the tool measuring plate out and look down underneath where the measuring plate sits. If it is a electrical sensor there will be a little sensor with a switch that gets pushed down when the tool hits the measuring plate and pushes down. This sensor tells the machine to stop pushing when measuring or else the machine will continue to push down and break a tool and put a hole in the measuring plate.

      If it is the sensor underneath the measuring plate and is compatible with the one I have I have some extras I can send ya. I wish I had some pics but ill take some tomorrow when I go back to the lab.

      For your measuring plate if it has a little hole where it slammed the tool down you can fix it if you have a pulse welder, just fill it in and smooth everything out and good to go.

      I hope this is what your talking about, if not lol sorry got a little scotch in the system right now.
       
    5. zero_zero
      Drunk

      zero_zero Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I kinda got used to the fact that distributors (even the highly prized ones :( ) don't know sh*t when it comes to advanced questions... Have a feeling that after a time using and abusing a given system, I could give em a lesson... Fact is that people who really know stuff are few and far between, their precious time won't allow them to answer emails or phone calls, and you won't find any working for a reseller... Gotta take time and play with it so you'll learn by trial and error...
      Cannot comment on the EZ mill (or clones), but it looks like its designed with a very tight budget in mind... saved a couple of bucks putting a touch surface for tool offset detection instead of a simple switch (or better). Unless you going to mod/tweak it, design weakness will prevail every so often.
      If it makes you feel better: I almost got a heart attack when I peeked inside my DWX50 the other day.:scared: There is nothing a mill should have... anemic stepper motors (NEMA 14 ?) without dedicated drivers, plastic gears, pulleys and bicycle brake cables to move things around, no position encoders just limit switches on all axis (no wonder why it looses axis position upon stalling)...list could go on... Going to throttle down feed rates to extend its lifetime, period.
      Good thing: mine is 14 months old and had no major issues so far :pray: , but looking to get an extended warranty ASAP...
      This could be a fair price IMO for what its worth...
       
    6. IVY

      IVY Member Full Member

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      Not to rub it in....I feel your pain(inlab owner)! I shipped a kavo everest via train and truck from a lab in Alberta to Ontario...set it up and it was only out 25 microns for calibration!!! I was very surprised! It's been cranking out titanium, yz, pmma etc..with no problem since! The kavo team from Germany remote calibrated it off a a titanium calibration mill. It's built like a tank!
       
    7. JohnWilson

      JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member Full Member

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      I love my Weiland mill, not one problem with it since I installed it. It just works,

      Sorry you are having so many issues
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. ParkwayDental
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      ParkwayDental Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Never mind sorry Sevan just watched a video on it. It does measure weird as hell?
       
    9. charles007
      Grumpy

      charles007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Sevan, have you asked Cadblu to exchange for a new mill ? less than 3 months old, that would be my entire conversation with Cadblu ! This thread most certainly will get there attention all over the US within the next 24 hours. I would suggest keeping this thread alive until its replaced.. Who wants a repaired 3 month old New mill, or even a repaired porcelain oven for that matter.
      I remember hearing first hand Wieland only had one Mini to have problems and they replaced with a new one. Also know first hand that Roland gladly replaced one of their DWX 50 that was aprox 6 months old..
      Sevan, please keep us posted on your problems with the EZ Mill, many future prospective EZ mill buyers will be reading this thread for sure.
      I was going to suggest you try to get a service tech from Wieland to service your mill but that might void your warranty ..
      Good luck,,
       
      Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
    10. Sevan P
      Twisted

      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      John, yours machine must of been built on a Wednesday. LOL This is how the Roland I use to use was like, load it up and never look back for days on end or even weeks untill you had to change burs.


      Tyler, electronic touch, more accurate but when the coating or a broken bur occurs your F'ED unless you catch it right when it breaks. Like i'm gonna stand by the machine for hours a day looking for the break to happen. If you think the way it touches off is weird, wait till you see how we have to machine the touch off point using a 1mm bur, ball head not flat end. You would think in order to machine a flat surface down you would use a flat ended bur right? WRONG! VHF thought it would be best to use a ball end bur where the only remotely close to flat part of the tool it the very tippy tip! Serious coming from a well known machine company I was very let down. And when it tries to mill the aluminum touch point down that bur is wobbling all over the place like it is gonna break.

      Charles I left them a Nasty voice mail, when they call me back tomorrow morning I'm gonna request the send out a brand new machine. I already lost one full day of milling the previous time it happened a month ago. We have only had the machine for a few months now and gone through three touch off plates, 8 calibrations and like 15 burs. FML that in any machine setup is not right period. Keep in mind the most I have cut in one day was 35 FCC in wax (emax) and 8FCZR.

      The thing is when the bur crashes into the touch off plate it breaks a tiny bit off in the aluminum and it is carbide so when you go to machine it flat the piece will not come out unless you file the point down, once you get it out you have no touch off point left. SO STUPID!!!
       
    11. Bumfrey
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      Bumfrey Active Member Full Member

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      You are so putting me off getting one. It will be interesting to see what they do for you. If i got a dud mill it could well break my business for a while. With 3 young kids thats a tall order to risk.
       
    12. NicelyMKV
      Spaced

      NicelyMKV Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I had a wieland mini but it had a 2 or 2.5 mm bur for taking out the "divot" on the touch plate. That thing was a beast. I was using the advanced cam(dental soft works) and was getting beautiful mills off of it? Sounds like you must have received a dud...?

      Tech support is an afterthought with a lot of distributors unfortunately... Hope you get it worked out without losing too many more hours and dollars( been there)


      Sent from my iPad mini using Tapatalk HD
       
    13. Mike2

      Mike2 Member Full Member

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      I haven't had those issues with mine, knock on wood. I did recalibrate it recently, because it wasn't cutting on the first pass, now it doesn't start until the second spiral from outside in. Weird, I know but I have been using the Sierra tools and they assured me they would work even with diamond coating. I would want a new machine, sounds like your measuring is way off, when mine started to divot after 250-300 units my tech support at Jensen just moved thje measuring point 1mm up 1mm right so I did not have to re- mill the surface.
       
    14. YMS96

      YMS96 New Member

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      I have a VHF and I had strange issues using aftermarket burs. I went back to buying my burs from the reseller and problem solved.
       
    15. Sevan P
      Twisted

      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      So I have two set of ZR and two Sets of Wax/Plastic burs, MFG burs coming to me so I can rule out it being the Sierra tools that are crashing my machine. I have a gut feeling that it will still happen with the MFG burs. Lets see what happenes. I had a long talk with one of the CB techs and we came to an agreement of the right path to go down to trouble shoot this issue.

      You just need to raise your voice a little then boom the help you need is there.

      Stay tuned.

      Makes sense but how do you explain a milling center that has 3 VHF machine all three running the sierra tools and no issues on their end? I'm stumped on that one.
       
    16. JohnWilson

      JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member Full Member

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      I have bought tools from 3 different vendors and I imagine from the packaging they are all reselling the same thing.

      I milled 2 full pucks of singles today 47 units with a .01 margin line offset and did not have one blemish anywhere, I am not trying to brag but to help put some sanity to not fight a machine that works for others.

      What CAM are you running? I have 18 months in on this machine now, its never needed to be calibrated, my plate has a tiny abrasion to it not any notch or hole like you said you had. I do take care of the machine daily,weekly monthly, I have not had to do anything but preventive cleaning and lube of the chuck as required in the manual.

      Is this your first mill? Did it ever mill everything correct? I would not lie down and wait for CADBLU to do the right thing, I would hammer them to send someone to fix it/replace it.

      Good luck
       
    17. DMC
      No Mood

      DMC Banned

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      CADBlu did not do me right as a customer.

      I lost $35k and six months of my life on a POS milling system from them.

      They are liars and can go to XXXX for all I care.

      They refused to give me refund on system was never going to work.

      Dave at Dale dental also got shafted on the same system, at the same time as I.

      So, you are welcome to get another opinion from him if you do not respect my words.
       
    18. Sevan P
      Twisted

      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      John I am running the basic CNC that came with it. It does a great job for what the cam is capable of doing. I would love to run Sum3D or DelCam, my friend has a strategy that cuts a FCZR in 13min or faster! But it is on delcam.

      First mill and my old job of 10 years, just came back to work for them after leaving for 1.3 years to learn at another lab CAD/CAM on Sum3D pared to a DWX-50 and an iMes 340i never had an issue on those mills at all like I am having on this VHF mill.

      The convo I had with CB today was basically MFG crap, your not using our burrs so we can say it is the machnes problem, blah blah blah blah................... But they are sending me two sets of burs for ZR and two sets of burs for the Wax/Plastic. I just put the fourth touch off plate on cause my second 1mm Sierra tool just crashed the plate after only cutting 5 ZR crown today Can you believe that?

      I know those tools work cause Talladium is running them on their Master Mills which is the eaxact same thing.

      CB tried to tell me that the bruxir mill master mill and wieland mini all are differnt from the ez mill in a little way. LOL maybe the looks but the inside and basic CNC are all the same. I got a good laugh from that line.


      I have been milling like crazy and when it cuts with no issue it is beautiful. fit, margins and all that good stuff.



      LOL Scott you do know they are seeing this thread right, The Tech said before I go posting online to contact them, I was like in my mind I never told you I posted this online, Blahahahahahahah. So does 3shape, Lucas asked me at the lab day west if I was the one with the thread of the modded d700. I gladly said YES. I take pride in my work on making thinks work they way they should, basically fixing the big guys **** ups!

      I'll take your word on Daves issue.

      By the way did brad ask you how much it would cost to cut my ring nut stl file out of Ti?
       
    19. DMC
      No Mood

      DMC Banned

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      About $200. ??

      It's OK if CADBlu reads this.
      They can write me and Dave a check anytime they feel like doing the right thing.
       
    20. gatorteeth87

      gatorteeth87 Member Full Member

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      So we had major problems with our VHF mill for the first month or so that we owned it, in fact, we had a loaner mill for a whole month while it was back for service/repair. Initially, there was a lot of tool crashing and initialization trouble. Went through the re-milling of the calibration surface several times. Biggest problem was with 4th axis. When we turned on the mill, it would do it's normal start-up routine and then begin to slowly free-spin and eventually stop at some unusual angle other than the "Basic position." When it was back for service, they found that the wire harness for the 4th axis was loose, replaced the calibration plate and returned it.

      I am happy to report that since then, (roughly 8 months ago) we have had ZERO problems with it. I would highly recommend running the calibration until you get deviation <9microns on every axis. Jensen says you want <7 but I bid you good luck on ever catching this mythical number. Took me a whole day of cleaning, calibrating, cleaning, calibrating, cleaning, calibrating until I got it dialed in. Once you do, I think you will find that this mill does not chip margins anymore and will stop destroying tools.

      Give it a chance. I gave up on our mill on at least four different occasions in the early stages of our relationship. Now I am shopping for a ring.
      Brad
       

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