Outsourcing inside the USA

[Tom Moore]

Getting ads from the biggest lab saying “We sell this to labs only for this price”….for realz?

In a world where even if there are lab laws dentist’s get a by if the work is done for them exclusively they do not even need to register.

Doesn’t that mean if DR Smith gets a DBA a checking account and debit card for Smith Dental Lab they buy at the lab price?

 

[2thm8kr]

Getting ads from the biggest lab saying “We sell this to labs only for this price”….for realz?

In a world where even if there are lab laws dentist’s get a by if the work is done for them exclusively they do not even need to register.

Doesn’t that mean if DR Smith gets a DBA a checking account and debit card for Smith Dental Lab they buy at the lab price?

All they have to do is call and say they are a lab. There is no credential checking.

 

[rkm rdt]

It's all Bruce Jender's fault!

 

[rc75]

I have dentist customers who are buying their own mills, scanner, etc & learning to mill bars, abutments, temps , crowns.
If they're cool and easy to talk to I ask them why they decided to open their own lab most say they're not happy with the labs
they've been using and some say they're not sure who's outsourcing and who's not.

 

[PearlZ]

All they have to do is call and say they are a lab. There is no credential checking.

we i check to the best of my ability.

 

[2thm8kr]

we i check to the best of my ability.

That is because you have your sh1te together.

 

[PearlZ]

that what YOU think!

 

[rkm rdt]

Speak English !

 

[Tom Moore]

Man I cfed the title to this thread. Oh well I'm old.

If a dentists has a lab are they not a lab?

I understand selling at prices that reflect volume, payment etc but selling the same product to a lab cheaper because they are a lab is strange to me.

I opened a box from a dentist today with fifteen cases and three of those cases were bridges. I also got four single units from a lab customer. Why should the lab get a cheaper price?

 

[2thm8kr]

but selling the same product to a lab cheaper because they are a lab is strange to me.

I opened a box from a dentist today with fifteen cases and three of those case were bridges. I also got four single units from a lab customer. Why should the lab get a cheaper price?

The idea behind it is to allow the lab to finish the work and mark it up. If you are finishing the work for the lab, then charge your regular fee.

 

[PearlZ]

Why should the lab get a cheaper price?

1. the lab is a source of 100x more volume than any doc. when they like you enough to do business its not only a revenue stream, its a continual revenue stream because that lab is constantly growing too.
2. the more product you have going through your equipment, the faster it gets paid off, the easier it is to give raises, and target areas of expansion with more equipment and more staff.
3. enabling other labs to have a fixed bottom line - where they know the cost of the restoration and the work ensuing to completion, they can be a better judge of profitability. it is simply not profitable for a lab offering 100$ FCZ to sell them to other labs, or for labs to buy them. theres no profit to be had. the same way dentists shop around for better prices, labs do it too.

its just good business to offer it lower to labs. those labs stay in business and revenue streams continue to make the actual source of work the biggest money maker. because that lab will eventually have more capital to grow with, and the outsourcers probably won't.

why do you think chinese labs are so huge? why is glidewell so huge? why is aurum so huge? they all offer cheap products to labs, and they grow grow grow.

 

[PearlZ]

The idea behind it is to allow the lab to finish the work and mark it up. If you are finishing the work for the lab, then charge your regular fee.

indeed, if a remake is required all profit is lost. what is the point of such a partnership ?

 

[2thm8kr]

indeed, if a remake is required all profit is lost. what is the point of such a partnership ?

I don't know, I wouldn't outsource my work for completed cases. If I am putting my name and rep behind it, I am going to complete the case.

The only thing I outsource for are things I don't want to invest the money in for equipment.
For instance printed models, or titanium abutments. I still want design control rather than rely on someone else's vision or ability.

 

[PearlZ]

but if for example you were outsourcing frames, and one happened to break or be bulky and need trimming and you grind a hole in it...

youve lost a day and some shipping cost, and maybe the cost of the item in the first place.

but if its only worth a fraction of the final price, then it can be safely remade even if they charge a second time.

but if that eats all your profit, then outsourcing was pointless. (or youre doing it wrong) (or both)

 

[2thm8kr]

but if for example you were outsourcing frames, and one happened to break or be bulky and need trimming and you grind a hole in it...

youve lost a day and some shipping cost, and maybe the cost of the item in the first place.

but if its only worth a fraction of the final price, then it can be safely remade even if they charge a second time.

but if that eats all your profit, then outsourcing was pointless. (or youre doing it wrong) (or both)

Exactly. Maybe I am not being clear. I am on like 3.5 hours of sleep today. lol

 

[Tom Moore]

After lots of hard work to be able to buy and use the best technology why should I care much for labs that sell products to my competition they can't afford themselves keeping them in busniss.

Seems those that can afford the technology should sell it directly to the dentist. Those that can't should be forced to buy a boat and fish or cut bait on some other guys boat?

Are there really that many labs that consist of a plaster bench a scanner and a staining oven. Hows that going to last very long?

This should stir the chili.

 

[rkm rdt]

You can write off any losses .

 

[rkm rdt]

You still receiving cardboard boxes Tom?
I receive 0's and 1's.
don't have to spray them either.

 

[PearlZ]

After lots of hard work to be able to buy and use the best technology why should I care much for labs that sell products to my competition they can't afford themselves keeping them in busniss.

Seems those that can afford the technology should sell it directly to the dentist. Those that can't should be forced to buy a boat and fish or cut bait on some other guys boat?

Are there really that many labs that consist of a plaster bench a scanner and a staining oven. Hows that going to last very long?

This should stir the chili.

it would help if you see dentists and other labs as "clients" instead of "competition" because the sooner you realize that offering labs cheaper crowns equals high volume super busy always working superlab, the sooner you can begin marching in on them as competition. quickest way to get bought by someone even bigger than you, too.

don't you want to retire early ?

what is this "technology" that dentists can afford but labs can't ? what is this technology that equals a whole lab replacement? you are kidding yourself if you think a piddly pile of cash buys the kind of equipment that cuts an entire lab out of the picture. anyone can set up an outsourcing milling center; far far fewer are the able bodies to turn chalk white crumbly piles of dust into anything i'd have put in my mouth.

there really arent many milling centers that offer themselves as full service either.

i did the math the other day (in canadain dollars) it would cost about 3.5million to startup a milling/printing center to pump out zirconia, and resin prints and ti bars alone. 3.5m for unfinished substrate coming out of 1 printer, 1 zirconia mill and 1 titanium mill. the biggest part of that startup of course is the floor space - which again i figure at around 900 sq ft to work comfortably. business space and legal costs, permits, and periphery to keep machines going (like compressor, support remover, zirc dip and oven, printer resin, and software) should bring the meager 480k equipment sticker up to 3.5m but can be as low as 1m if you buy property in a sub prime location at a grossly undervalued mortgage.

now, if you want to start adding finishing work to anything coming out of those machines, add 1m.

you want to tell me any old dentist that wants to cut out a lab can look at a dwx50 and think - yeah 30grand that seems like a reasonable facsimile of the entire services of the lab that's overcharging me for zirconia.

lol

 

[zero_zero]

You'd need way less than 3.5m for a startup...in my neck of the woods (BTW...way overpriced than anything in SK) 600k would get you about 3500sf of a prime industrial bay condo...add another 150k for building development and you're good to go...

...then again, with 3.5m I'd just retire right away...