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    Outside Accounts

    Discussion in 'Removable' started by mshiss, Feb 13, 2017.

    1. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      Hello there! I am a full time in office removable lab tech. I have several doctors outside of the practice that are interested in me doing their work. I love my day job and have no intentions of opening my own lab and quitting my regular paycheck. However, I am open to doing some cases on the side at my house. I want to make sure I am doing this legally. I doubt it is more than a few cases per month. I live in NC where there aren't any regulations that I am aware of except material and subcontractor disclosures. Do I need to apply for a business license or can the client just 1099 me at the end of the year. I just want to make sure I am doing this correctly. Also, do I need to be a business to order supplies from dental suppliers or can I do it personally as a lab tech. If you have any supplies and equipment to sell I may be interested. Thanks in advance!
       
    2. JKraver
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      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Are you doing it behind your employers back?
       
    3. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      I actually asked my employer first to go through the lab onsite and give me a cut, but they thought it would be a hassle to have outside accounts, especially the ones not local. I am a one person lab that averages 50-60 units a month on a four day work week. I'm probably crazy to want to do side work, but I just enjoy making dentures.
       
    4. JKraver
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      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

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      You will probably need a business license. Talk to NADL.
       
    5. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      You sure about this? Ohhkay...

      You may not be interested in leaving your day job, but you have opened a lab.

      A "fictitious name registration" also called a Doing Business As (d/b/a) form at your local courthouse would be helpful so you can at least make some paperwork distinction between your personal business and the lab's business. Make up whatever you want to call it. This will be your labs name, choose wisely. All checks and business mail and materials should be written/shipped/made out to this name.

      After doing the D/B/A you'll need it with you to show to everyone for the rest.

      You can use your social security number, but don't, please, get a EIN from the IRS. An EIN identifies a business like a ssn does a human. You're going to be giving this number out a lot.

      You'll need a business license which usually involves:
      A guess of your gross income.
      Residential? zoning waiver/variance/permission
      Renting? landlord permission

      Every distinct business element (2 docs in an office, but have different 'books' are 2 elements, not one office) that pays you more than $600 in a calendar year, unless you are incorporated, they need to file a "informational" 1099
      (state tax ppl may have other ideas, that's IRS's wants)

      You will need to file form C (or form c-ez) with your personal taxes and pay 15.3% "self employment tax" with your 1040 on adjusted gross business income. This is to pay both halves of SS and Medicare, your day job boss pays the same thing you do into your 'account' on your every paycheck. Remember that when you want a raise:)

      You will likely need to provide a list of equipment you use to make this money to the city/state so that they can tax the "Business personal property"

      You will not need, but unless you want a chunk missing from your bending distal, you should keep a detail accurate record of all business transactions. Purchases, Income, mileage(You can claim this as a deduction!)

      I'd heartily recommend opening a separate checking account for business funds, and getting someone else to handle your books, unless you are insanely persnickety and totally, perfectly, proper about keeping your checkbook.

      Insurance is not legally required in some places, but you'd be in a world of hurt (and a doofus) without it. And possibly living in a box if someone filed paper as there would be nothing between you personally, your car, house, etc. Your defenses to even an idiot-obvious not-your-fault situation would be something you'd have to do on your own. UPS guy slips on the ice bringing you a package...goodbye retirement package.

      I can provide you with an excel spreadsheet (pm me) with which to keep your books, if you like,that works good enough that my banker called me anal... Most normal people need someone to go over this at least quarterly for tax adjustments, cash flow management, and sanity checking.

      I'd suggest asking these questions of a bookkeeper, and an accountant, and a lawyer. Tax prep places can sometimes provide some minimal guidance, but most are not trained in business stuff and you are responsible to find the correct information.

      Getting the wrong information, unless in writing from the IRS is not a defense to mishandled events.

      Are you still REALLY Sure you wanna do this???
       
      Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
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    6. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      Wow. Thank you. You answered all of my questions. And I'm completely unsure if this is what I want to do. In the pst two weeks I've had three separate dentists wanting my work. Do you know how long it takes, and how hard it is to acquire all of the legal things?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
       
    7. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      If you start early enough one morning, and have enough money to throw all at once, you can do most of it in one day. The zoning thing will be what holds you up most likely, and you can't apply for zoning check and business license (bus. lic. process usually includes a zoning dept OK) until you do the d/b/a thing.
       
    8. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      That's what I was worried about. I live in the county so hopefully it won't be an issue.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
       
    9. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      Uhhh, left out a big piece of the puzzle. How long have you been doing this? Are you the lead tech at your day job? If not, you're gonna have some issues that you will be needing to handle that you will have no one to help you do.
       
    10. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      So, is this the order
      1-DBA
      2-zoning check
      3-business license
      4-IRS number
      5-insurance.



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    11. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      pretty much. See if you can get the IRS number 1st, it'll most likely be needed on your zoning and business lic stuff. They want to know who to fine.
       
    12. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      first and foremost......

      WRITE A BUSINESS PLAN!!!!

      otherwise, just keep doing your day job. there is such a significant difference between going to your job and OWNING your job. find out if its right for you and your "why" before you dive in head first. shame on you @JMN we JUST had this conversation!
       
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    13. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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    14. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      I knew I forgot something. Whoops. Thanks.

      @sidesh0wb0b is very right. Why you. What will make you different from the other labs around. Why would/should anyone want your work. These are all very important. The business plan is also essential. He recommended a book from these people to help write a plan.
      http://www.nxlevel.org/
       
    15. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      on top of that it will help determine if this is really what you want. not just from a money standpoint but more importantly a time standpoint. doing your own thing is very time consuming. taxes your social life, relationships, etc (and your day job)
       
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    16. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      Do you have children? Do you have a supportive spouse? Are you planning on either coming into your life?

      his is a huge piece of whether you do this or not. Being a parent is far more important than making more dentures and some money. Having 2.5 full time jobs is what you're realistically looking at occurring.

      Another good book is E-myth, highly recommended.
       
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    17. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      @mshiss ,I really cannot stress enough how important the step of a business plan really is, I can't believe I forgot it.

      I 'started' 2 businesses before my lab. I thought that's what I was doin' at the time. What I really did was find 2 distinct and creative ways to:
      hurt my family,
      annoy many people,
      aggravate myself,
      waste gobs of money,
      lose lots of time,
      and suck all the joy and passion out of these two activities I previously loved.

      I got the side benefits of finding out
      exactly how serious the city, state and IRS are about taxation... And zoning... ,
      proper bookkepping, paperwork management, and general business stuff cannot be done without lots of preparation and input from learned people,
      input from learned people is hard to come by, expensive, or both,

      and the huge lesson that if you're going by the seat of your pants, you're gonna fall on your, uh, your..., well you get the idea.

      Before filing paperwork, anywhere, read e-myth, read and do the book/workbook SideSh0wB0b pointed you to. This could be a dream or a nitemare. Doing those things with honest self examination will let you find out which before the screaming starts if it's a nitemare, and give you the best possible good outcomes if it is a dream.

      Not all techs are cut out to be managers of many types, customer relationship initiators and handlers, and clerks of multiple disciplines too. Being a great tech in a field is what I thought, all I thought, that was needed when I 'tried' before and failed in an amazing explosion of inneffectivness inducing infuriation.

      One more thought that you need to grasp before getting too deep is why are these docs asking you to do this?
      Are there no good labs in the area, or are they so clinically or ideologically inflexible that they will not work with the other local labs after things went pear shaped and one 'fired' the other.


      I think I'll go hide my keyboard now.
       
    18. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I am kind of in your shoes I have some accounts that want me to do their work, but I am in house. To make my own lab would be too much on top of wife and two kids. I just don't make the extra.
       
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    19. mshiss

      mshiss New Member Full Member

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      Thanks for all of the info. I have been a lab tech for over 17 years. I love setting teeth, bending clasp wires and can do a phonares lingualized set up in 20 minutes. I'm dialed in as a removable tech. My last job hired two people to replace me and still have an ad looking for a tech. I'm a one woman lab now and every case that leaves my lab has been made start to finish by me.
      My husband worked in my current lab with me for three years until he went back to his career. He is able and willing to help me. We've been married for ten years with no plans of children. I work four days a week and at most work 35 hours per week. I've never been a go getter and wanted my own lab. I very much so enjoy my salary and day job. I take a lot of pride in my work and it's a real accomplishment to me to have doctors seek me out. I've worked with these docs in the past and they said they can't find a lab that does the same quality work. We never even discussed discounted prices. They just want my work. I'm not trying to compete with the other labs around or plan to seek new accounts. I just want to make a few cases here and there for a few doctors and do it legally.
      You guys are awesome. I appreciate all of your info and advice.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
       
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    20. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Does any of the Drs who want your work trust you enough for you to third key at a their "house"? You could cut with them for your rent/books.
       

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