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NicelyMKV

NicelyMKV

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I searched a few pages and did not see any threads on this unit. Anyone have any experience with it? I have been dealing with B&D dental awhile on a future 3Shape purchase but now they are offering me this. White Light Technology that is more accurate than 3Shape? 1.5 min scan times as opposed to 45 sec with 3Shape seems to be the only downfall. 3 times less expensive with a locked unit which is not terrible for me as I was going to use them anyway. I watched the design phase videos on their website and it looks as slick as 3Shape. They are adding virtual articulation with excursive function later this year. Love to hear everyones thoughts. Just got rid of a Dentsply boat anchor and do not want to buy another one.......

Jason
 
TheLabGuy

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I'm dealing with them currently. A few things pushed me towards them.
1. Great Customer Service, very helpful
2. I was able to get a scanner/software in a week versus literally 'who knows' with the rest of the companies, even 3Shape is 6 weeks.
3. A HUGE thing was I'm able to get my guys properly trained in a timely manner. Most places I contacted was months.
4. Is price, a grand total of 8K. Yep it's closed, but I always have the option to make it open by paying the difference (minus depreciation). You can't beat that.

The only downfall's I've seen is that it's an accuracy of 10 microns versus 5 microns like the Delcam and others suggest. The scan time like you mentioned. The other thing, and this may be a pro versus a con, but you have less options than some of the other software out there, but this could be looked at as a pro because it's much more user friendly than any out there. That's just my first initial take on it, ask me in 60 days when we go more mainstream with it, but that's where I'm at today.
 
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charles007

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Forget about the accuracy difference, what's a few microns when you get near 20. All of our crowns will fit better than typical pfms any day of the month, and White light is good no matter what box it comes out of . :)
What happened with Dental Wings, did it fly fly away :D

Rob, if I'm not mistaken, Marc has the same scanner, not sure about the software, so your in very good company, and one up on me. :(

edit: Jason, if you follow Rob's lead with Origin, you can't go wrong. B&D told me months before they started selling Solutionix scanners it was more accurate with their milled crowns than milling with their 3shape . All of the better scanners will have their advantages and disadvantages over each other, and one brand will always have the latest updates in software gadgets until another company one ups them a few months later.
I was told white light is more accurate, but slower when scanning, so I'll gladly live with that since I'm not to fond of open margins.
 
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DMC

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Dental Wings is partnered with 3M and Jensen, and Straumann, and ?? Charles.

They got rich from that I'm sure. Don't need Zahn anymore.

The new Dental Wings/3M/Straumann softare is due out soon, with new scanner for around $14k. It's a sweet 64 bit platform.

I think you guys are talking about a Korean White light scanner and U.K. based software (exocad) IT is sold under many various names. Very popular in the U.K. but not here yet.
 
TheLabGuy

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Dental Wings is partnered with 3M and Jensen, and Straumann, and ?? Charles.

They got rich from that I'm sure. Don't need Zahn anymore.

The new Dental Wings/3M/Straumann softare is due out soon, with new scanner for around $14k. It's a sweet 64 bit platform.

I think you guys are talking about a Korean White light scanner and U.K. based software (exocad) IT is sold under many various names. Very popular in the U.K. but not here yet.

***, I would of loved to go with 3M, it's right where I would of been happy spending the money. I work with some great milling centers (including you) that are 3M certified, but man, they don't have their shlt together for nothing. They say this summer, by fall for sure to be able to order the scanner....umm training, the facility is in Minnesota, but they aren't training anyone and nobody can give you a date, let alone schedule the training. For me, I really didn't want to wait and it might as well be 1200 bit sitting on pluto waving at us because right now it doesn't exist. I'll have my guys trained and up and running next month full bore. No other cad/cam companies could come close to that scenario.
 
Slipstream

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Dont get too hung up on micron level fit - I am sure I could get you a scan and mill to within 1/10th of a micron - but you don't need it - there comes a point beyond which it make little difference - OK - what does?

Support - is it readily available from local and manufacturer level

Compatibility with milling centers you are happy to use

Ease of use of the software

Non Closed system - ie you can fall out with a milling center and send elsewhere for another brand - or indeed non brand if the price needs pushed.

Ability to run your own mill or resin printer - may be a longer term goal for you

Ability to import oral scans - currently not a real issue but may be before long

Total cost of ownership - 5 years - buy price and upgrades AND outsourced restorations - add them up - the cheap scanner may be dear when you add 10 overpriced units a day - every day

All more important than 5 microns here or there
 
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charles007

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Colin, what scanners are more widely used in the UK, and also considered more accurate,..whoops see..... accuracy is now all the same by many...... meant to say that have easy to use software to achieve good contacts and occlusion.
 
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Slipstream

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Some ST's but many under used, Etcon have a solid run as do Straumann - 3 Shape has a decent amount - Dental Wings are pretty thin on the ground despite them being cheap - and very little else in any kind of quantity - ones and two's - nothing like the scanner density of Europe wher every lab has at least one
 
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charles007

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Some ST's but many under used, Etcon have a solid run as do Straumann - 3 Shape has a decent amount - Dental Wings are pretty thin on the ground despite them being cheap - and very little else in any kind of quantity - ones and two's - nothing like the scanner density of Europe wher every lab has at least one

What say you about iMetric/Delcam... two thumbs up or down ? With Delcam being in the UK, thought they might have a large market share, maybe not ?


Charles
 
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NicelyMKV

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That is great to hear. I can swallow 8K a lot easier than 27+. B&D has been extremely helpful for quite some time now.

Rob, how is the scanning process. When I purchased the Cercon system It ended up being a pain in the rear to mount the model on the table and then get it positioned at the right angle, height etc. That was one thing I liked about Sirona. Very quick and easy to mount and scan. No issues with turn around times etc? Something just keeps me from going the Dental Wings direction. Cant put my finger on it but just lose interest.
 
Slipstream

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Delcam are big, but they are in multiple industries - we use one of their scanners for milled bars very sucessfully, the guys seem to like it. Don't think we have ever done and crown and bridge work on it though.
 
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Have you actually used the Solutionix scanner or seen it in person being used? I actually had them in my lab showing me and the scanning definitely didn't take 1.5 minutes, more like 10-15, to manually having to move the camera to fill in all of the holes it had. Very tedious and time consuming. I admit, the quality was good, but the loss in time to actually get a good scan wasn't worth it. Plus, they use Exocad software, which I didn't like at all.
 
NicelyMKV

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YMS96, I have not seen it in person. I have watched several videos of cases being designed. I asked about a video of the actual scanning process but have not been able to find one. That is my biggest fear, getting the system and then spending way too much time trying to get usable scans. I think TheLabGuy may have used it. Rob?
 
NicelyMKV

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I have heard some good things about the Amann Girrbach system. Very high quality and more user friendly design software. Would love to hear if anyone has played with one.
 
DMC

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Amann Girrbach, Zirkon Zahn, Solutionx, 3DO, etc. all have exocad based software I believe.

Shouldn't be much difference.
 
TheLabGuy

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YMS96, I have not seen it in person. I have watched several videos of cases being designed. I asked about a video of the actual scanning process but have not been able to find one. That is my biggest fear, getting the system and then spending way too much time trying to get usable scans. I think TheLabGuy may have used it. Rob?

10-15 mins. HA!!!!!!! Get some new Dentists or stop scanning turds.

I have to wait to give you my full assessment till we go mainstream (July). We are hoping that this replaces all of our waxing or at least put a huge dent into it for us. We do a ton of implants, but I have labs out there that can do most of that cad/cam work, including the zirconia. However, it is nice to be able to offer some new products (BruxZir, other full-contour zirconia, Titanium PFM's, and Titanium full cast, cad temps) in the near future. I'll keep you all posted on this endeavor, as most of you know. If it blows, I'll say it does. I'm not one of those guys out there that invested all this money and has to say it's the best thing since sliced bread to justify my crappy purchase. I'll let you know either way. So far...we've been very pleased but that could easily change as we go more mainstream with it.
 
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10-15 mins. HA!!!!!!! Get some new Dentists or stop scanning turds.

This was the actual Koreans representing the company who were doing the scanning...with their own demo model. They couldn't even get the Exocad software to load properly! Let us know if it's working any better, it'd be interesting to see how it's evolving. I personally liked the scanner and the quality scans..the software and tediousness to fill all of the holes didn't excite me much though.
 
TheLabGuy

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This was the actual Koreans representing the company who were doing the scanning...with their own demo model. They couldn't even get the Exocad software to load properly! Let us know if it's working any better, it'd be interesting to see how it's evolving. I personally liked the scanner and the quality scans..the software and tediousness to fill all of the holes didn't excite me much though.

Weird, I thought only B&D did the demo'ing. Either way, I'll let you know as I told that Nicely fellar I would also if it's good to go or not. I really want to wait till July though to give you and the company a fair assessment.
 

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