NP alloy recomendations?

[normanmilquetoast]

Anybody have recommendations for NP alloy? I'm currently using Ceradium. It's very forgiving to cast, but has a high CTE.
I got an email from Nobilium Ticonium for a T-4 alloy with a CTE of 14.1...anybody used this?

 

[Wyolab]

I just got a sample of Wiron Light from bego it has a CTE of 13.8 to 14.1 but I have not tried it out yet. If you e-mail [email protected] she can probably give you info on it. What porcelain do you use?

 

[BruceQuality]

This is the one we use for NP and it has a similar CTE.

Pisces Plus
Nickel-Chromium ceramic alloy. Predominantly base alloy with ideal mechanical and physical properties for conventional feldspar ceramics.
Advantages
Excellent melting and flow properties
Light oxide
Excellent high temperature strength
Works with conventional feldspar ceramics
Certified biocompatibility
Indications
Single crowns
Telescope and conus crowns
Posts
Short and long span bridges
Partial dentures
Composition
Ni 61.5
Cr 22.0
W 11.2
Si 2.6
Al 2.3
Other metals< 1.0
Technical data
Color white
Density (g/cm³) 8.4
Melting range (ºC) 1255-1330
CTE 25 - 500 ºC 14.1
CTE 20 - 600 ºC 14.4
Elongation (%) 10.0
Vickers hardness 280
0.2% proof stress (MPa) 600

 

[normanmilquetoast]

Thanks guys.
Wyo, I use Creation and just bought Vita.

 

[sixonice]

Do you want the non-precious alloy to be Beryllium free or Nickel free?? The NP's with Beryllium are the easiest to use (by far). They melt like a semi precious, metal finish decent and have light oxides. I am not saying I like the stuff, and the Beryllium must be treated properly, it is just the easiest. Check Rexillium 3.

 

[normanmilquetoast]

Thanks Six,
I'm happy to have beryllium and nickel for ease of use. I think I'm going to give this T-4 a try. They said it's similar to Rex 4 and it's very cheap. If it doesn't work, I'll try to Rex 3...I've heard from several sources it's a great performer.

 

[JohnWilson]

Thanks Six,
I'm happy to have beryllium and nickel for ease of use. I think I'm going to give this T-4 a try. They said it's similar to Rex 4 and it's very cheap. If it doesn't work, I'll try to Rex 3...I've heard from several sources it's a great performer.

Anyone that chooses to use these two dangerous elements in their Base metal crowns should really consider other ECONOMICAL alternatives. Both of these elements "Be & Ni" that make this product more friendly to use are extremely dangerous to the person working with it. Proper precautions can limit exposure but why would you not look for a different solution. We all are forced to do base metal from time to time but I have chosen not to subject my staff to the potential dangers this type of alloy invokes.

Please don't take this post as a slam to your business choices as its not intended to make you feel like your doing something wrong. I just want to point out the health risks so we all may grow old and retire because we choose to not because we have to.

 

[charles007]

Most of us at sometime in the past have used np, or been forced to use it.... Always had great success with np as with any other alloys that matched my porcelain. Don't use Np now, and have no intentions of ever using again......
Rather than using NP, why not change to a porcelain that will tolerate a Noble alloy with a high silver content as an alternative.........

Just noticed your using Vita porcelain......Vita doesn't want you to use more than 20% silver. Should you try a alloy with silver, and the cte matches, use a non-greening modeling liquid......I use Pentrons Avante Buildup Liquid with vm13. Vita also just came out with a non-greening liquid.

 

[charles007]

NP alloy...Talladium makes NP alloys with different CTE'S to match just about any porcelain on the market.......

 

[normanmilquetoast]

John,
Thanks for your concern. I know you have my best interest in mind. I use NP only on occasion and I'm a one man lab. I'd be happy to consider alternatives w/o nickel and beryllium, but my experience has been that they don't perform well. Do you have any suggestions?

Charles,
I read on another post that you recommend Argelite 61 for Vita, had another friend independently suggest the same, so I bought some. I believe it has around 28% silver. Is that going to be a problem?

 

[charles007]

NO PROBLEM AT ALL WITH THE 61.
I was using Noritake with the 61 and added vm 13......the cte is on the high side with the 61, so I slow cool for 1 min....No checking at all.....I would ideally prefer an alloy closer to 14.2.........and ideally prefer less silver....With over 2 years using Vita vm13, and many years with 900, yet to see any problems.....
With vita, as best as I can remember, anything over 14.4 you need to slow cool.... "Norbert at Argen told me years ago that 61 is ok for Vita."
I will say I try my best to design an ideal framework, be it singles or bridges....
Never waxed badly designed mini pontics with tons of porcelain. But hey I'm not perfect, many times I do under wax.
Always use a non-greening liquid for powder opaques and porcelain with the 61.....and its ok with the paste opaque..........
Feel free to call or PM if I can help.

Charles

 

[normanmilquetoast]

Thanks Charles, I appreciate the advice.

Trey

 

[Gdentallab]

what NP metal you use?
Be free?
Ni free?
Is the Cr, Co alloy the alternative?
If we want to stay away from silver containing alloys, and from Cr, Co alloys , what do you chose?

 

[amadent]

NP alloy...Talladium makes NP alloys with different CTE'S to match just about any porcelain on the market.......

right you are charles we use their ti-lite type P with creation porcelain
works great. its alittle on the high side as far as NP about $40 an ounce

 

[charles007]

These are older post.....Just wanted to add that I use 90 sec cool time with 61 with Vita porcelain, rather than the one minute I posted....yet to have any problems.......

 

[leetech]

talladium is the best np on the marked tryed them all !!!casts lovely and thin , trims like semi presious . No greening and when oxidised it becomes a nice straw colour. they sell different types to match ur cte , just follow follow instructions carefully and to the point

 

[side__kicker]

NP Alloy

**edited**

This isnt for selling.

 

[disturbed]

Anyone that chooses to use these two dangerous elements in their Base metal crowns should really consider other ECONOMICAL alternatives. Both of these elements "Be & Ni" that make this product more friendly to use are extremely dangerous to the person working with it. Proper precautions can limit exposure but why would you not look for a different solution. We all are forced to do base metal from time to time but I have chosen not to subject my staff to the potential dangers this type of alloy invokes.

Please don't take this post as a slam to your business choices as its not intended to make you feel like your doing something wrong. I just want to point out the health risks so we all may grow old and retire because we choose to not because we have to.

.

"All palladium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Palladium chloride is toxic, harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. It causes bone marrow, liver and kidney damage in laboratory animals. Irritant."


what are you using john?

anyone have any recommendations on a "cheap non-toxic" base metal that work well with D'Sign? semi precious?

 

[Tom Moore]

We have used a lot RexCC.

I will not sell a PFM alloy with Beryllium or Nickle. I will not expose my techs to these metals.

I knew a one man lab/tech that died from beryllium exposure and it's not a good way to go. Especially just to make the alloy cast easier.

I used a lot of it back in the late 70's and 80's and hope that does not cause problems for me down the road.

 

[capickettcdt]

My now passed away father in law worked on the Manhattan project. When he heard that I was using an alloy with Beryllium back in the early 80's he about freaked! He said that the worst thing you could do was to heat it up and melt it. Stopped using it then and haven't since. I used some nickle alloys but always had to explain to the Dr that he would have to inform his patients.....too much trouble. Settled on using SP alloys and on occasion I would use the Talladium Alloy if I absolutely had to use NP.
I've never heard that Palladium Chloride was at play in our alloys, but a good reference is Paul Cascone, Metallurgist for ARGEN (invented many of the Jelenko Alloys like Olympia)