Nobel Procera optical scanner owners/users

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BruceQuality

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Users of Nobel Procera's optical scanners, how are your Zr and Al copings turning out? Most specifically, how are the fit and the margins on these copings when you recieve them?

Thanks for any/all input.
 
JohnWilson

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I am a huge fan of the new scanner/software system from Nobel but there are bugs to be worked out. With my picalo I could get very very precise margins and the software more or less found the margin for me on good preps.

With the new optical scanner one has to mark the margin more manually as the auto detect feature is pretty much useless right now. Utilizing the 2d aspect for cut away is imperative to check for proper extension, IE no short or over extended margins. It has taken some tweaking to get a core with perfect margins but I have done it. Unfortunately we have had more cases that are less than prefect since we received it.

There is a new update to the software that is being released in about 2 weeks that is supposed to address a bunch of issues. I am hoping this is one of them.
 
rkm rdt

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John, what is your opinion on the Nobel Scanner after the new upgrades?

Are you fabricating cobalt chrome copings with it?

Would you still recommend one?
 
TheLabGuy

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Hey John, I know Procera is offering a new 'medical grade' base metal......I'm curious is this just for Full Cast or Copings?....and how does the medical grade differ from the past base metals? Thanks
 
JohnWilson

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John, what is your opinion on the Nobel Scanner after the new upgrades?

Are you fabricating cobalt chrome copings with it?

Would you still recommend one?

I love Nobel, they have been a wonderful partner for my business. I would purchase this unit again based more on the fact that I have a very good relationship with nobel. I believe the amount of money that this company is spending on the procera line this year will surprise alot of people. I see good things coming.

As for chrome I have done test units and they have turned out fantastic. We have not put this on our pricelist as I have had a very strong stance on base metal restorations. We are currently doing an in house test on Milled Ti with this system as well but I have not enough units done to make a real informed comparison. The few we have done have turned out pretty damn good, I have been very leery of Ti mostly because of Marks past experience with this material but it appears either the milled Ti or the new porc systems have certainly improved things.
 
JohnWilson

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Hey John, I know Procera is offering a new 'medical grade' base metal......I'm curious is this just for Full Cast or Copings?....and how does the medical grade differ from the past base metals? Thanks

Hi Rob,

Not sure if they are referring to Chrome or Ti I will have to check my system in the morning but I believe that both are offered in full contour form but I have not done any full contour in this material. I am curious though I will check in the am.
 
JohnWilson

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I checked this am it appears that Ti and Chrome "Will be" available for full contour "CAD" in the future but for right now it is not available via the software.

It does look like I can do a wax up and scan that and have that produced but that defeats the purpose.

There is a new software updated slated this quarter as well that will open up a few more things. Perhaps then it will be fully functional.
 
rkm rdt

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You have reservations about base metal restorations? From a lab perspective or biocompatibility?
 
rkm rdt

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I was about to purchase a 3 Shape scanner but Nobel has sweetened the pot by offering me $7500 for my Picollo and no software upgrade fees.

So now I'm back to the open vs closed debate.
 
TheLabGuy

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You have reservations about base metal restorations? From a lab perspective or biocompatibility?

I think you're asking John........you know my thoughts on car bumper metal, come out of the dark ages Luke, this is your father speaking....lol
 
rkm rdt

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It's been over 25 years since I used non-precious.

However it is being offered as a milled coping these days.
Is there any harm to the patient I am not aware of?
 
TheLabGuy

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It's been over 25 years since I used non-precious.

However it is being offered as a milled coping these days.
Is there any harm to the patient I am not aware of?


That's what I was getting at when I asked John. I believe the 'medical-grade' non-precious has a different metal composition. Therefore the CTE may not be suitable for copings, but might not cause the biocompatibility issues we see from currrent non-precious and be something for full cast. Come on John, we're both being impatient over here....lol
 
rkm rdt

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At least "new" metal would always be used.
 
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As far as i was aware, the big thing with these base metals (at least the laser sinetered ones) is that they are nickle and beryllium free, which are the two main metals that people are allergic to.

With out these present i think the bio compatibility issue is largely a non issue.
 
Mark Jackson

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Procera will be in the news tomorrow

I chose to hold off, and keep my Forte, especially with what I knew about the Renishaw deal, and some problems reported by insiders at NBC. I have six former employees working there.

Here is some current news though:

Interview with NBC Chairman to be published tomorrow:

(Bloomberg 1-11-11)


Procera business is improving, Chairman Heino von Prondzynski told Finanz & Wirtschaft in an interview to be published tomorrow.

Customers didn’t get what they expected when Procera, a system used by laboratories to create dental implants, first went on sale in mid-2009, von Prondzynski told the Zurich-based newspaper. The scanners didn’t have the promised features, the software wasn’t optimal, and the materials were incomplete, the report cited the chairman as saying. As a result, the company lost a year of market penetration and growth for Procera, he said in the interview.

The Glattbrugg, Switzerland-based company changed the staff and the focus of research and development, the newspaper reported.

“The product is more competitive today,” after the changes were made, he told the newspaper.
 
JohnWilson

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OK here is my take on things:

In a perfect world where alloy prices were consistent and my competition was forced to operate in a fair and effective manner by playing by all the rules I would not have any issue providing a product to my clients a Precious free restoration. Here lies the problem your clients no matter how much you sugar coat it are only going to be compensated for a base metal crown. Casting an finishing base metal generally means you are working with an alloy that contains Ni and Be. There are others out there that work but everyone I have worked with in my career had a trade off. I choose not t put my health and the health of my staff at risk by using this type of alloy.

Now as it relates to milled NP which Nobel calls "Chrome" this material is about as clean a base metal as I have ever seen. How bio compatible it is in the mouth I have no idea. If it has Ni or Be I don't know. I am testing it and it works fine with my Vita Porc. Its just another product that I am working with right now and testing to see how it reacts in my lab and seeing how much it will actually cost me to produce this unit effectively. I will then see what the market will pay for such a product and then and only then will I know if I can make money on it. My thought is NO, but the milled Ti may be different, it all depends if ADA will provide a code to the INSCO for a porc fused to TI restoration. Right now its a gray area on how offices are coding it which I do not like.

Rick as for this scanner or 3shapes system you have to ask yourself who you plan to partner with to mill your designs, then nail down your costs for these restorations. I have locked my prices in with Nobel before I purchased the new scanner.

Let me know if you have any other questions,
 
JohnWilson

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I chose to hold off, and keep my Forte, especially with what I knew about the Renishaw deal, and some problems reported by insiders at NBC. I have six former employees working there.

Here is some current news though:

Interview with NBC Chairman to be published tomorrow:

(Bloomberg 1-11-11)


Procera business is improving, Chairman Heino von Prondzynski told Finanz & Wirtschaft in an interview to be published tomorrow.

Customers didn’t get what they expected when Procera, a system used by laboratories to create dental implants, first went on sale in mid-2009, von Prondzynski told the Zurich-based newspaper. The scanners didn’t have the promised features, the software wasn’t optimal, and the materials were incomplete, the report cited the chairman as saying. As a result, the company lost a year of market penetration and growth for Procera, he said in the interview.

The Glattbrugg, Switzerland-based company changed the staff and the focus of research and development, the newspaper reported.

“The product is more competitive today,” after the changes were made, he told the newspaper.

I agree Mark, they did rush to implement the newest scanner for the Mid winter Release. Was it a mistake? I don't really think so at least not for me. You see the things I was using it for it did exceptionally " abutments and single unit cores" All the addtional items are gravy for me.

Nobels biggest mistake in my opinion is promising too much too soon, they are unlike a lot of companies which is good they actually will not open up other areas of the system till they bullet proof it. Sometimes this takes-some time but as fast as technology is changing its definitely a concern to be left behind.

As for the Procera brand its stronger than ever and it appears that Nobel is switching gears and putting more emphasis on restorative. This is good news for sure.

Thats my take on it.
 
rkm rdt

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I'm crunching numbers as we speak.
 
rkm rdt

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Thanks for posting your thoughts on this by the way.
 
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Bruce76

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When this scanner and software reach its full potential it will be a very impressive piece of kit.
We were sold it at the IDS 2009, but what they claimed it was capable of and what it actually did was worlds apart. We were initially very disappointed.
Gradually it is getting better but we seem to find bug after bug and the UK support could be much better.
 
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