New Material - Lava Esthetic

[Pam]

We all have done a lot of eMax it's good stuff but I have a hard time believing that it went from 360mpa then 400mpa and now 500mpa. All with out a change in the material. Talk about making up numbers. I guess they will do anything to fight off the new layerd Zrs out there.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

We all have done a lot of eMax it's good stuff but I have a hard time believing that it went from 360mpa then 400mpa and now 500mpa. All with out a change in the material. Talk about making up numbers. I guess they will do anything to fight off the new layerd Zrs out there.

with that said, i can still count on one hand the amount of times emax has failed when it was handled properly from start to finish.
without testing i cant vouch for the 500MPa for certain, but i def feel its stronger than they reported at 400MPa. it was very appropriate timing for the release of that inf *snicker* but hey, its marketing and they want to continue owning the market share.

 

[Gru]

We all have done a lot of eMax it's good stuff but I have a hard time believing that it went from 360mpa then 400mpa and now 500mpa. All with out a change in the material. Talk about making up numbers. I guess they will do anything to fight off the new layerd Zrs out there.

Milled e.Max is 360mpa. Pressed has always been listed at 400mpa in Ivoclar material. While Ivoclar has been known to "lab test" products in the past, e.Max is definitely under-hyped when listed at 400mpa. With countless cases in the mouth and so few remakes for breakage I believe the 500mpa number. As to these new materials, we'll have to see their longevity. Ivoclar has it's own zr line, so I don't really see the fight the same as you do, perhaps.

 

[grantoz]

i love how many want to believe the new emax numbers but want to dispute the strength and reliability of zirconia crowns .im still waiting for all those zi crowns to transform crystally and then fail after 5 years ive been waiting ten years now who do i go after for these misleading statements.By the way i have been doing fluro Zi cores now using ZirkonZahns fluro liquid for 10 plus years now BIG DEAL LAVA and you can use it on prettau anterior full contour. i liked when lava 3m were bagging full contour zi and then released their own we have long memories lava.

 

[escopche]

Why does it matter if LiSi is 50 mpa stronger? E.max's biggest complaint is that it is grey not that it fractures. E.max has been used for years with success. Adding 100mpa to it won't make it less grey.

 

[Car 54]

With countless cases in the mouth and so few remakes for breakage I believe the 500mpa number.

That was the latest I read in a publication as far as their revision (I will try to find it). But 1st I received a email of the new numbers, then a letter of the new emax numbers, then what I read as far as the success rate (lack of failure in the mouth) that their numbers were probably to low, and are now being revised, accordingly.

When I questioned my sales reap as to why the Zenostar numbers for their zirconia were so low, Zenostar MT ~550mpa, and Zenostar T and MO at ~900mpa he said they used a different standard (ISO, I believe) for their numbers, but if they used the 'typical" strenght values (what everybody else uses?) the number are higher, MT at ~700mpa, and Zenostar TO ~1400mpa and the colored discs at ~1100. The MO at ~ 1150mpa and the colored discs ~1000mpa. Even in the Zenostar instruction manual, it shows the higher numbers as a different value than the ones stated above it. (ISO numbers compared to "Typical" strength values) Example below:



So all in all, the numbers game can be a little confusing, but still can be used in decision making. Fracture toughness probably being more important than flexural strength of all the numbers that are thrown at us: http://digital.jdtunbound.com/?issueID=64&pageID=46

If the link doesn't open for you, it's Tech Tidbit on page 42 of the Jan issue.

 

[user name]

I guess its like anything...A chain or rope rated at 500 pounds generally has a breaking strength of 1000.

When I told a friend how big my fish was, I may have exaggerated a bit. When telling a group of guys, some how it got bigger.

Im not going to mention the name, but Ive been playing with some FCZ lately that has me excited. So far, it looks nicer than my e.max has. Things are changing.

 

[adl]

Why does it matter if LiSi is 50 mpa stronger? E.max's biggest complaint is that it is grey not that it fractures. E.max has been used for years with success. Adding 100mpa to it won't make it less grey.

The grey part of it has to do to how and how much you layer

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

i love how many want to believe the new emax numbers but want to dispute the strength and reliability of zirconia crowns .im still waiting for all those zi crowns to transform crystally and then fail after 5 years ive been waiting ten years now who do i go after for these misleading statements.By the way i have been doing fluro Zi cores now using ZirkonZahns fluro liquid for 10 plus years now BIG DEAL LAVA and you can use it on prettau anterior full contour. i liked when lava 3m were bagging full contour zi and then released their own we have long memories lava.

im not debating the str and reliability of zirc fyi

 

[Car 54]

The grey part of it has to do to how and how much you layer

It can be, but I also think it (emax) becomes more trans and lower in value with repeated firings, no?

 

[rkm rdt]

I guess its like anything...A chain or rope rated at 500 pounds generally has a breaking strength of 1000.

When I told a friend how big my fish was, I may have exaggerated a bit. When telling a group of guys, some how it got bigger.

Im not going to mention the name, but Ive been playing with some FCZ lately that has me excited. So far, it looks nicer than my e.max has. Things are changing.

There's nothing wrong in playing with your fcz especially if it gets you excited.

Broadcasting it on the net could get you in trouble however.

 

[adl]

It can be, but I also think it (emax) becomes more trans and lower in value with repeated firings, no?

Yes , so don't fire it too many times

 

[Pam]

I'm playing with glazes on Zr restorations. Interestingly enough I'm finding some brands to be cloudy or gray. What are you using and why?

 

[RJS8669]

Depends on who you know!

I know a guy...

 

[Car 54]

I'm playing with glazes on Zr restorations. Interestingly enough I'm finding some brands to be cloudy or gray. What are you using and why?

Which ones have you tried?

I really like InSync paste. Just plain works, no problems or complaints. I'm even liking the spray, when needed.

 

[KIM]

Which ones have you tried?

I really like InSync paste. Just plain works, no problems or complaints. I'm even liking the spray, when needed.

Great topic as you are correct about some causing cloudiness or greying!
Here is a photo of InSync Glaze on the bottom (Clear) and a well known competitor on the top (Cloudy and milky). These glazes were applied over black ceramic ingots that we colored to show the difference in glaze. InSync rocks!

 

[esamuelr]

I do like Ed McLaren, it will be nice to hear his feedback on it.

They are now saying emax is ~500mpa. They, Ivoclar, disclosed these new numbers about the time LiSi press ingots came out.

By the way Pam, welcome to the forum I also see you have your mood set to "Amazed", yes, it is pretty amazing to be here with all us on this FB alternative

They are saying Emax is 500MPA with 1mm thickness. Nothing has changed in the material just their recommended thickness.
I believe it used to be .5-.8mm.

 

[rkm rdt]

Great topic as you are correct about some causing cloudiness or greying!
Here is a photo of InSync Glaze on the bottom (Clear) and a well known competitor on the top (Cloudy and milky). These glazes were applied over black ceramic ingots that we colored to show the difference in glaze. InSync rocks!
View attachment 24689

Your competitor isn't a glaze!
Fake! Experiment

 

[Car 54]

They are saying Emax is 500MPA with 1mm thickness. Nothing has changed in the material just their recommended thickness.
I believe it used to be .5-.8mm.

Thanks. That's what I thought I had read to in one of their articles too, rated at 500mpa at 1mm.

 

[AlienMilling]

We tried it 2 weeks ago. Looks really nice. Only drawback is it can accommodate up to 3 unit bridges. Just like most other zirconia in the same mpa range.