New Emax Press Multi info and furnace warning

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paulg100

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OK so i went along to an Ivoclar road show last night and got some great information.

Theres allot of people on here asking about which press furnace to get so take note here!

Firstly the new Mutli ingots..Pretty darn awesome! got to see how the sprue set up works and the kinda results you can get with a stain/glaze technique and this is gonna be BIG for mainstream commercial work or even multi unit smile makeover stuff.

The ingots phase from dentine opacity to incisal translucency (not just colour but translucency!) and matched the stock vita guide damn near perfect from what i saw.

Now a bit of a bomb shell (would be press furnace buyers take note!)

You need a press furnace with an intelligent press function to use these ingots!
The liquid glass press's horizontally not vertically and apparently this requires a press that can sense the liquid state and pressure of the glass as it press's.

Basically what ivoclar are saying is that you need an EP3000 or EP5000 to press the multi ingots, as these are the only two furnace's in their range (and any body elses?) that have an IPF function.

Now this maybe just Ivoclar trying to flog their own gear, but when you see how the sprue former works it makes perfect sense that the furnace would need this extra level of sensing/function.

Anyone who is about to buy a press furnace, you may wanna take note of this as you DO NOT wanna miss being able to use these ingots.

Maybe there will be a work around with regular press's, maybe not...

Lucky i bought an EP3000 a while back, so looks like i made the right choice for a change .
 
TheLabGuy

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The Whip Mix 200 has the same crack detection system. I'm not sure what they are calling it or if it serves the purpose as an IPF function. By the time it gets to the states (most likely next year),Europe will have worked out all the bugs for us :):):):) Now if we can only get them to talk without that funny accent...lol
 
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Zubler i-press. Works perfectly. Im really excited about these new ingots as well. The only thing I havent nailed down yet...Im thinking these must be sprued and pressed as single units. (?). If not, youd have to be lazer accurate on pattern+sprue weight/length to get equal distribution of the ingot into each crown. In my little cave I do most as singles anyway. It will for sure end anyones idea of reusing old ingots.
 
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paulg100

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Yes you have to press as singles.

The sprues are like square chips and you sprue one side to the mesial wall of each crown so the sprue runs down the verticle wall.

These square chip sprues then slot into the sprue former, it takes 4 per ring (maybe more on larger rings, we didnt see that).

The ingots are half way between a small and large ingot.

Depending on how far up/down you position the sprue on the vertical wall, determines where the dentine and enamel will be on the crown.

Then when you press, the ingot push's into a central well, then goes out horizontally to each unit through the square sprue

aimg854.imageshack.us_img854_2694_img0003iu.jpg

Dunno who thinks of this stuff but pretty clever :)
aimg854.imageshack.us_img854_2694_img0003iu.jpg
 
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charles007

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Who grinds in the contact where the sprue wall is located. ... not me

Whats the trick around that ?
 
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paulg100

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good point, ill take grinding in a contact over layering a crown with ceramic any day though.

Massive time saving.
 
rkm rdt

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That's cool Paul.
You described it very well.
 
rkm rdt

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" The Whip Mix 200 has the same crack detection system"

I didn't know that.
 
TheLabGuy

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" The Whip Mix 200 has the same crack detection system"

I didn't know that.

The newer ovens coming out on the market do. I'm not sure if that's because of the new ingot or not (I'll ask around).
 
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paulg100

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Oh and for anyone with the Ivoclar EP or P furnaces, there is a V6 software update available to download from the ivoclar site now which has the multi press parameters and other bits.

Although the multi ingots are not due for another couple of months.
 
TheLabGuy

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Oh and for anyone with the Ivoclar EP or P furnaces, there is a V6 software update available to download from the ivoclar site now which has the multi press parameters and other bits.

Although the multi ingots are not due for another couple of months.

I talked to my rep a couple weeks ago and he said that I won't see the multi ingots until next year at the earliest here in the USA. The EU will be a lot sooner.
 
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paulg100

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ah well ill keep you all posted as soon as i get me hands on em.

Maybe its a FDA thing which will delay them in the US.

I think getting the CE approval for the UK is whats been taking the time for us here.
 
Labwa

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word is the ivoclar P press furnaces wont be able to press multi, or wont be able to update to that software. They are limiting to ep3000 and ep5000.

also they have said the parameters for the multi are that sensitive they think it wil be quite a long time before anyone catches up.

time will tell i guess.

oh and ive heard december/january for release in Aus. probably means march april. Id say US will see them before Aus

they are ready to go but manufacturing enough to keep up with projected demand is their focus apparently.
 
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paulg100

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"word is the ivoclar P press furnaces wont be able to press multi"

Yes thats because they dont have an intelligent press funtion (pressure sensor)

Like i said above, only furnaces with an itelligent pressure sensor will work with the multi ingots, or at least thats the official line at the minute.
 
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Kurt Zubler

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OK so i went along to an Ivoclar road show last night and got some great information.

Theres allot of people on here asking about which press furnace to get so take note here!

Firstly the new Mutli ingots..Pretty darn awesome! got to see how the sprue set up works and the kinda results you can get with a stain/glaze technique and this is gonna be BIG for mainstream commercial work or even multi unit smile makeover stuff.

The ingots phase from dentine opacity to incisal translucency (not just colour but translucency!) and matched the stock vita guide damn near perfect from what i saw.

Now a bit of a bomb shell (would be press furnace buyers take note!)

You need a press furnace with an intelligent press function to use these ingots!
The liquid glass press's horizontally not vertically and apparently this requires a press that can sense the liquid state and pressure of the glass as it press's.

Basically what ivoclar are saying is that you need an EP3000 or EP5000 to press the multi ingots, as these are the only two furnace's in their range (and any body elses?) that have an IPF function.

Now this maybe just Ivoclar trying to flog their own gear, but when you see how the sprue former works it makes perfect sense that the furnace would need this extra level of sensing/function.

Anyone who is about to buy a press furnace, you may wanna take note of this as you DO NOT wanna miss being able to use these ingots.

Maybe there will be a work around with regular press's, maybe not...

Lucky i bought an EP3000 a while back, so looks like i made the right choice for a change .





I think you bought the wrong oven -

By coincident I'm Mr. Zubler and I confirm that the Zubler Variopress 300e can press the new e.max multi ingot
perfect. We are even pressing e.max ingots twice as fast as Ivoclar and the results are outstanding.

The problem you have is, that you are telling the lab people the multi ingot is coming and only EP3000 or EP 5000 can press it correct -

-But the Multi Ingots are not coming - Ask Ivoclar why?

What a marketing - telling the lab people you need a EP 5000 or an EP 3000to press the new Multi Ingots and when you ask they are not available and they are not coming - Only Ivoclar can play such games with the customers.

Zubler has a Patent for Pressing Lithium Dislicate faster ( total time for a 200gr. Ring pressed in our VP300e from putting the ring on the pressing tray until the oven opens and you can take the ring is 16-17 min. - total time - on a EP5000 it's 32 min.

Now you can see why Zubler's VP300e has no reaction layer and the best possible results in pressing e.max ingots on the press oven market.

I can give you lab's they have the new e.system and ask them what happens with there EP 5000. They are using our oven to press e.max not Ivoclar or others.
Dr. Ed Mc Laren at UCL also have expierience with the VP300e - new version.

Everybody who reads this and has already an VP300 send an email to [email protected] and we can upgrade your oven, even the
oven was bought in 2006.

You can get the Advanced Press Technolgie and you get outstanding results.
Plus we have the Zubler 144 investment (Made in Germany) for pressing too.

This is how we support our customers, even your 6 year old oven is
upgratable, because we develope and produce everything in our family owned
company in Ulm, Germany. We have offices in USA, one in TX, one in Atlanta, GA.

When you want to upgrade or test an oven, just send as an email.
 
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paulg100

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now please read my post again.

I am not telling people to buy an ep3000/5000, i am informing people that this is ivoclars official line and that other furnaces may work fine.

We already know that ivoclar will be keeping the press settings for these ingots under wraps (screen blanks out when pressing),so if and when these ingots arrive hopefully you have a way around that.

"I think you bought the wrong oven -"

NO im sure i didnt , im pleased as punch with the ep3000 i bought thanks.

bought for good price, excellent results and so for 100% reliable. couldnt ask for more.
 
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DeVreugd

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I saw the results in Chicago and was very impressed! I have the VP 300 but I need the upgrade to try it out.
 
rkm rdt

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I'll wait for the cad version.
 
Zubler USA

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Send me your oven..and I will make it press faster than Paulg's oven..;)
 
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