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Models, Milled or Printed models

Discussion in 'Making the digital transition by Custom Automated' started by BobCDT, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Hi All
    Looking to collect opinions on automated models. If you had you druthers, would you prefer milled or printed models. For the purpose of the thread, let's say each model would be equally priced and they would work like an Itero model with the die popping out form a solid model. In addition, let's also assume that the milled model will have slightly lower surface quality (not the die) than the printed model. However the milled model surface quality will be superior to the Itero model. Let's also amuse that both printed and milled models are of equal quality dimensionally and are more dimensionally accurate than analog models. Lastly, is automating your model something you would like to do and if so what is the price point that would make sense to do so?
    Please feel fee to add anything else to this thread that may come to mind concerning analog and or automated models.
    Thanks All,
    Have a great day,
    Bob
  2. Debby Wu
    Angelic

    Debby Wu New Member

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    Hi Bob,

    Your topic is very attractive to me. Further to your question, I am interested to know how long does it take to mill models for a case as well. In China, I heard that it costs US$10 to US$35 to print out a model, but it is very time consuming! Say if I want to make 300 models a day, will your center be able to make do it?
  3. sidesh0wb0b
    Relaxed

    sidesh0wb0b Active Member Donator

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    even with all those assumptions, Bob, thats a huge question! lol......gonna take some thought. i agree with Debby, whats the time frame for each printed vs milled to completion?
  4. CatamountRob
    Amused

    CatamountRob Banned Member Donator

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    If we're talking about 2 models, one printed and one milled, same price, both dimensionally accurate, both function the same and have roughly similar surface quality....why would I care how they were made? I think the only relevant question is at what price point does it become feasible.
  5. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Hi Debbie,
    This is a project we are looking at. We do have significant experience in model model manufacturing. Obviously, if we introduce an automated model our goal would include ramping up manufacturing to facilitate demand.
    I think we could offer two or possibly 3 levels of service. Files received by noon could be prioritized to go out same day. In addition we could have a 24 and 48 hour production cycles.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  6. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Rob,
    What is the maximum price point that would make this work flow attractive to you?
  7. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    i want dual colour models (pink tissue white teeth) at 10$ an arch, 2$ a die.

    i also want the models to have the feature of a snap-in self articulation. print/mill (whatever) me the articulator for an added 5$.

    when the case is finished the doctor will sell the models to the patient at the cost of the models (not a dollar more) to encourage repeat revenue.
  8. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Love it!!!
    That's exactly what I would want as well. The multi-color is available in printing technology. However, I believe the technology available not adequately accurate for crown and bridge. In addition, I don't think this can be achieved through milling unless you made all the teeth out of a separate white block that inserted into a milled or printed pink base. at any rate, there is no way TODAY that this can be done for anywhere near the $12 sticker price. My guess, the cost of a model like this today would be in excess of $100. Maybe someday!
    Bob
  9. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    you absolutely sure about that, bob?

    cause i know about a certain printer that prints dual color ABS plastic in less than 10micron accuracy, and 1thousandth of an inch layer thickness. is this not good accuracy for C/B work ?

    edited to add, spools of ABS cost 48 dollars fom the same site as the machine i speak of.
  10. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Are you refering to of Objet?
  11. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    nope, nothing to do with Objet. they are not the only printing solution in existance.
  12. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    I know of many. Let's bring dinner to the table! Who are you referring to?
  13. MAFCDL

    MAFCDL Member Donator

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    Hey Bob,

    Have you been over to Objet? I spent some time over there last week looking at their systems. I'd be interested in your thoughts...I had a hard time wrapping my head around making production and design fit into the parameters of our existing lab. I would have a problem not being able to quickly print out an emergency model or die because the printer was in the middle of its pre-designated 6 hour milling cycle. Not taking into consideration the quality of the model, I would lean more towards milling being the more advantageous approach only because of the ability to jump in and mill and emergency model if needed.

    This is obviously my non-technician point of view...but I'm interested in your findings. Our target price point would be right around what was previously mentioned ($10 arch, $2 die)






    <auto signature>
    Mike Farago
    Concord Dental Laboratory Inc.
  14. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Hey Mike,
    The last time we looked at Objet was about a year ago and we found it to be less accurate than what we need for C&B. As you know, technology is changing very fast and we should probably take another look now as a year has passed and perhaps they have dialed it in to be more accurate.
    For now, I think printing will be more economical than milling. At least for the shot term. Milling models will take quite a bit of time as there is a very large surface area. I'm not so sure this can easily be change or optimized. Ideally, having both technologies could be the solution you are looking for. Printing will be more cost effective for the bulk of the models needed. Then, having mill capability can be the solution for a quick model or die on an occasional need basis.
    Regards to Bob.
    b
  15. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    i would disclose publically who i am referring to (what company) but i fear the repercussions of doing so. bob, i will message you instead, and you can let me know your conclusions privately.
  16. Gru
    No Mood

    Gru Active Member

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    Hey Bob, any new news on milling models from an .stl? Do you do it, or does anyone at this point?
  17. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Hi gru,
    We can do it. But, to provide a decent model the mill time is waaaaaaay toooo long. As a result, it's not an economical work flow. I know Align is milling Itero models. But, they are also fairly expensive and have poor surface quality. I hate trying to shape an anterior crown on an Itero model kit. You have no clue as to surface anatomy and much of the form of the adjacent tooth.
  18. BobCDT

    BobCDT Well-Known Member Sponsors

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    Gru,
    Just to shed a little more light on automated model production, I really think printing will be the way of the future.
  19. Mark Jackson

    Mark Jackson New Member

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    Additive is so much more efficient for bigger patterns, but ultimately, I think models will go away entirely. I just don't see myself ever making models here.
  20. Gru
    No Mood

    Gru Active Member

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    Thanks Bob and Mark for your responses. A follow up question, if you will: Do any of the additive printing methods allow for an attractive color- say a off white or buff?

    And Mark, if you don't make any models there, are they all IO scans or printed? How is that working out for you? I'm way to small to buy the printer at this point, but looking toward the future.

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