Milled Titanium / NP Fits

[paulg100]

"I do recall seeing somewhere that the red cam's accuracy was 25 microns"

Not sure how whoever said that knew, as according to the guy at the CEREC technical helpline, no one at Sirona knows the accuracy.

All im trying to establish is whether the system (inc redcam) is capable of milling to a consistancy of 25um.

Its pretty hard to establish that if Sirona dont know how accurate there scanner is? which begs the question how is it legal to sell the system on that basis.

 

[pingvin]

There is a support FB group "Inlab study group". The person who started the group enlightened me upon my request (this is not official Sirona statement!): "the red scanner had fitting problems, the ineos blue is +- 25 microns in fitting and margins accuracy, which is good comparing to other sanners15-30 microns"

So my guess is the red scanner absolutely does not have 25 micron accuracy.Does the blue one? I don't know for sure, I would only believe it if Sirona publishes this world wide.

 

[paulg100]

"I don't know for sure, I would only believe it if Sirona publishes this world wide."

*cough* Sirona is all about smoke screens and marketting.

Ill beleive it when i can compare the data myself.

"So my guess is the red scanner absolutely does not have 25 micron accuracy"

Yes im almost certain, this is why they will not give me the information, and is why matters will be esculating soon..

even if it did have, a tollerance of +-25um for the mill and then another +-25um for the scanner means a potential of upto +50 microns, so how does the system acheive a consistant fit of 25um as advertised!?!

One things for sure, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO consistency with the red cam.

 

[Mark Jackson]

"I don't know for sure, I would only believe it if Sirona publishes this world wide."

*cough* Sirona is all about smoke screens and marketting.

Ill beleive it when i can compare the data myself.

"So my guess is the red scanner absolutely does not have 25 micron accuracy"

But everybody continues to drink the Koolaid and swear they LEAD the industry.

 

[Alistar]

Paul, this is pissing ME off and I don't even work with one of these.

Just make sure you post the pics/video when you finally drop this POS off a building onto your Cerec reps' head.

 

[paulg100]

Well the dental CAD/CAM suppliers and manufacturers have had an easy ride so far.

This has been a completely new market which means thousands of gullible customers who are green to the technology. ( a manufacturers dream come true!)

As this becomes more prolific and technicians start wising up, its gonna get harder and harder for them to BS there systems in to labs.

Unfortantly i trusted my lab partner/supplier to provide me with a system that fulfilled the requirements i gave them, but this trust seems seriously misplaced at the moment.

Can you imagine this kind of nonsense going on in the engineering sector?

The way i see my situation at the moment,

its like buying a ferrari thats meant to do 180mph. Then when you get it home you cant go faster then 50mph.

"Ah yes sir, but the car only does 180mph downhill with the wind behind you!
... and it depends on the gradient and the strength of the wind. But we purposely neglected to mention all that when you bought the car"

You have a 12month warranty (because the car is built like a toy) so you stick it in the garage and carry on paying the lease for another 5 years. In the mean time you cant afford another car, so are late for every business appointment and eventually loose your job.

now how many people would put up with that?

I just have an MCXL and not a ferreri but same thing (and nearly cost as much!!!!)

 

[paulg100]

I found this a very interesting read regarding false advertising and manipulation of data.

Especially this bit:

"Other deceptive methods

Manipulation of standards

Sellers may manipulate standards to mean something different than their widely understood meaning.

One example is with personal computer hard drives. While a megabyte has always meant 220 (1,048,576) bytes in computer science, disk manufacturers began using the metric system (SI) prefix meaning of 106 (1,000,000). By stating the sizes of hard drives in 'megabytes' of 1,000,000 bytes instead of 1,048,576, they overstate capacity by nearly 5%. With gigabytes, the error increases to over 7% (1,073,741,824 instead of 1,000,000,000),and nearly 10% for the newer terabyte. Seagate Technology and Western Digital, were sued in a class-action suit for this. Both companies agreed to settle the suit and reimburse customers in kind, yet they still continue to advertise this way.[5][6] To help combat this problem, a number of standards and trade organizations approved standards and recommendations in 2000 for a new set of binary prefixes, proposed earlier by the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC),that would refer unambiguously to powers of 1024"

 

[araucaria]

same situation with internet providers selling on the basis of speed, or cellphone companies selling on network coverage. I find that the best people to deal with for good answers are the service engineers or technical people - not the salemen. Similarly how often do you hear of car salesmen telling you how many miles per gallon a car will do, when in reality he's just quoting some text from a company document that doesn't reflect true driving conditions.

 

[DMC]

1000 watt Lanzar car amplifier at K-Mart. LOL

Size of a pack of BubbleGum.

 

[paulg100]

"same situation with internet providers selling on the basis of speed, or cellphone companies selling on network coverage."

yep and i bet if challenged they would loose in court also.

notice how ISPs now advertise there speeds as UPTO xx.

If they advertised a consistant speed of 2mbs then what. False advertising. money back thank you.

the difference there i guess is they would try to blame outside influences like the telco.

Who does a cad/cam company blame when its all their equipment? ah i have it - the user!

"I find that the best people to deal with for good answers are the service engineers or technical people"

Tried that approach - hit a dead end, no one will give me the data im asking for. Dosent sound dodgy at all does it

 

[harmonylab]

"I do recall seeing somewhere that the red cam's accuracy was 25 microns"

Not sure how whoever said that knew, as according to the guy at the CEREC technical helpline, no one at Sirona knows the accuracy.

All im trying to establish is whether the system (inc redcam) is capable of milling to a consistancy of 25um.

Its pretty hard to establish that if Sirona dont know how accurate there scanner is? which begs the question how is it legal to sell the system on that basis.

well, it was in one of the dental lab magazines... but that system is totally incapable of anything nearing 25um accuracy. margins were routinely open by 0.5mm

 

[paulg100]

"well, it was in one of the dental lab magazines... but that system is totally incapable of anything nearing 25um accuracy"

its nice to know that the magazine was also deceived, it sounds more like they thought this because the MCXL is advertised at 25um, not the Camera.

A nice little way of creating some grey area to fool poeple.

There seems to be no public data available on the camera, even in Sironas own technical documents or website.

 

[mrcadcam]

Magazines publish anything the advertisers are paying them to publish. Cant trust hardly anything any more without your own research or a close friend. I hate that i cant enjoy TechCrunch anymore.