Looking to Invest in Cad Cam

Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

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We just just finished installing our new five axis mill. This makes mill number 8 for us, and will be used for some new product development, R&D, and for implant abutments only. Running off the bank of 3Shape scanners and the new Edgecam TPG.

ai3.photobucket.com_albums_y79_Ngagi_IMG00371_20110519_1239.jpg
ai3.photobucket.com_albums_y79_Ngagi_IMG00371_20110519_1239.jpg
 
Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

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Hi Mark,Somehow I thought you might find this funny. What would your recomendations be?

I've said it so many times, but I'll say it again. 3Shape. I just don't get what anybody sees in the other scanners and software. We have quit using DentalWings, Straumann, Cercon, Cerec Red, Cynovad and 3M scanners all together. Everything is running through 3Shape and we are taking the Lava COS and iTero scans and running those through the 3Shape as well.

Then again, I don't usually base my decisions on price, because I've almost always been bitten when I do that. I also don't like being the first to get something, especially from a company with a LONG history of over promising and then delivering some really CRAPPY products, even when customers warn them about it...

Lava DVS was a real winner huh? Lava Essential? A blue ribbon turd. Now that they have teamed up with two or three other companies who have NO EXPERIENCE with CAD CAM, you guys are all telling me the world is about to be turnred on a new axis by them? Really?

I've been down this road so many times before, and we have ALL watched 3Shape take over market share, and start pulling away at light speed. Yet everybody wants to buy a non exisitent, soon to be released product from a company with a poor recent track record, and no prodcut in a real lab anywhere?

Let me know how that all works out for you guys! :)


Is there anything else out there that is much less than double the cost of the 3M? 20K is just way too much to spend for us little guys, and according to my sales rep at Jensen 1-5 man/women labs are 85% of their business, so there are probably a lot of us out there.

Yes, that makes up MORE than 85% of the market. So youre telling me they have come up with a mavcine that is 10X better (Scotts words, not mine) and will be half the price and easier to use and compatible with any STL system?? I just don't buy it. Sorry.


I,ve waited 20 years, what's a few more weeks? You are usually quite helpful with your comments. I am surprised.

Weeks turn to months, months turn to years. Even if somethibg did become widely available in three weeks, do you want to lay down your hard earned money to be the first one to have it? Not me baby!

Buy a 3Shape and get to work tomorrow.

:)
 
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kevinmelles

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Hello Lab Guy. Do you have a chart on how to mix porcelain to get different shades? For example mixing A2 and A4 to get A3.5 etc. Thank you
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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I'm with Mark on this one.

I just sent out my first 5 files today.My 3 Shape just made my first 2 months payments in one day.

That's a good ROI in my opinion.
 
Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

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Hello Lab Guy. Do you have a chart on how to mix porcelain to get different shades? For example mixing A2 and A4 to get A3.5 etc. Thank you

Off topic, but it can't be done. Only Vita 3D shades work that way. FYI
 
DMC

DMC

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Yeah, mark is right.

The old Vita shade guide has very little rhyme/reason.

3D is engineered in steps.
 
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charles007

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Throw a few a large bills under the table and maybe Scott can find a used Lava scanner . :D
Throw a few bills my way, and I will tell you what not to buy.....:D

If I had to do it over again, I might buy the cheapest scanner you can buy that produces nice fits, easy to use software with great support. Most importantly, visit the company and watch someone design some of your cases, and see the results after there milled before you buy.
Spending 12 to 32K or more on a scanner is a lot to spend with new technology changing so fast. You must make a very educated investment in "time" before you buy. Unless you want total control of your crowns, buying a miller may not be the wisest decision with zirconia coping/full contour prices getting cheaper. :rolleyes: Sorry, I'm a control freak:D
I'm wrong....forget everything I said about buying a cheaper scanner.... I didn't buy a cheap scanner at all........
 
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paulg100

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so what mill is that mark?
 
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charles007

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Mark's 5 axis mill is by Laserdenta and made in Germany
 
Mountain Goat

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Hahahaha
:doh:

Yeah I'd just wait. End of June. Yeah, end of June. Don't rush out and do anything crazy like buy a 3Shape, just wait until the end of June. In January, the new 3M full contour zirconia will be ready, but really, no later than the midwinter. Or possibly the end of June.

I'd just wait til the end of June. EVERYTHING will change and the best of the best will come at the end of June.

ONLY happy customers at 3M...starting at the end of June.

Definately the end of June. Earth shaking changes. End of June for sure. I'll be selling all my other equipment so I can get this revolutionary new stuff in at the End of June.

I just got a call today from another design center who heard thru 3M/Brontes channel the DW software update is going to go past the end of June..........true story.....looks to be end of ????
 
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TROJAN HORSE

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milling machines

HEY MARK, HOW WOULD YOU RATE YOUR NEW MILLING MACHINE VS THE BRUXZIR MILL? IF YOU HAD TO BUY ONLY ONE OF THESE MILLS WHICH ONE WOULD YOU BUY? ARE YOU MILLING ANY WAX WITH ANY OF THESE MILLS? THX DIRK
 
Hary

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Hi every one. I purchased the Cercon systeme in november 2010 if i only knew about this forum earliar i would have asked Scot or Mark or any other person to help me out with a decision, i am 3 person lab and i have cecon eye brain and sintering furnace. If i only knew i would have baught a good scanner like 3 shape maybe.
The thing i want to say is for a small lab like us don't jump and buy some thing to be digital...
 
Hary

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Hi again i would like to ask if some body who uses Cercon systeme what to do to have perfect margins on your miled zirconia or plastic copings? Thanks
 
TheLabGuy

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Hi again i would like to ask if some body who uses Cercon systeme what to do to have perfect margins on your miled zirconia or plastic copings? Thanks

You answered your own question in your previous post.
 
Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

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Hi every one. I purchased the Cercon systeme in november 2010 if i only knew about this forum earliar i would have asked Scot or Mark or any other person to help me out with a decision, i am 3 person lab and i have cecon eye brain and sintering furnace. If i only knew i would have baught a good scanner like 3 shape maybe.
The thing i want to say is for a small lab like us don't jump and buy some thing to be digital...

I had one of the very first Cercon machines in the US and we loved it. It was cutting edge stuff then, and with the Cercon eye, it's still a decent machine, especially for a lab your size. It has been and continues to be a work horse, and we still use it for certain kinds of cases. For the longest time we did all our R&D and intricate stuff on it.

You know, I have heard people call it junk. I have heard people call the Straumann unit junk, but my experienec with both systems has been favorable for the most part.

I think its important that we all understand the limitations of the systems we buy and don't be upset if it doesn't do something we want it to do. I think you have a decent little setup there, and if you decide you want a different scanner and design software, 3Shape can help you get their scanner talking to the Cercon Brain.

It can be done.
 
Hary

Hary

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I had one of the very first Cercon machines in the US and we loved it. It was cutting edge stuff then, and with the Cercon eye, it's still a decent machine, especially for a lab your size. It has been and continues to be a work horse, and we still use it for certain kinds of cases. For the longest time we did all our R&D and intricate stuff on it.

You know, I have heard people call it junk. I have heard people call the Straumann unit junk, but my experienec with both systems has been favorable for the most part.

I think its important that we all understand the limitations of the systems we buy and don't be upset if it doesn't do something we want it to do. I think you have a decent little setup there, and if you decide you want a different scanner and design software, 3Shape can help you get their scanner talking to the Cercon Brain.

It can be done.





Thank you Marc:)
 
DMC

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I think he wants to see the point cloud data that I have been posting of various scans.

Some software is limited in the way the data is rendered. Also, maybe Charles is interested in the amount/quality of data??
 
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charles007

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I think he wants to see the point cloud data that I have been posting of various scans.

Some software is limited in the way the data is rendered. Also, maybe Charles is interested in the amount/quality of data??

I want simple, easy to use software to go with the accuracy I have.
Guess I need a scanner made my Apple..........
 
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Sune

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Charles, if you want easy go with what Mark says

Cercon eye, it's still a decent machine, especially for a lab your size...

...I think its important that we all understand the limitations of the systems we buy and don't be upset if it doesn't do something we want it to do.

good point!
 

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