Looking to Invest in Cad Cam

2

2thdznr

New Member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
We are a Small crown and bridge Laboratory with a staff of 4 people.
We are now to the point that with our clients consistant enquiry`s we need to look at purchasing a cad cam system.
My concerns are return on investment,qualityservice ability, and manufacturers support.
I would appreciate any and all thoughts
Thank you
Chris
 
P

paulg100

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
42
from my own experience, you would be looking at a scanner only solution at the moment as buying an in-house mill for a 4 man lab would take to long to pay off. Ideally you need to figure on a 3-5 year ROI.

so i would say a scanner to out source that also has the possibility to run an in-house mill at a later date.

Its really hard to know what to go for at the moment as things are moving so quickly that what you buy one day, could easily be out of date the next, if you buy in to the wrong system.

3shape seems to be leading the charge at the moment and their older scanners are still supported in the latest software which shows their commitment to their user base. 2010 update finally has digital articulation. IF it works this will be one of the holy grails CAD/CAM has been waiting for.

An open system is a must, do not get tied into one manufacturer as they will shaft you in material costs or some other way.

as far as in-house milling, a dry+wet mill is the way to go now i think, so you have the option of zirconia and glass, although there are still limited options in this respect for smaller labs.

dont belive most of the marketting/spec blurb on any system as most info is manipulated to give results that you will never acheive in day to day use, such as accuracy and output volume.

my 2 cents ;)
 
Last edited:
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
817
Paul is correct on this........I would'nt think of buying a milling or even a sintering machine at this point (4 person lab). Get yourself a nice 'open' scanner.....and if you buy a Sirona, I'll make faces at you for the rest of your life...lol 3do like Scott stated, or 3Shape seems to be the ticket I may be headed in the near future. I'd just get the scanner and use the milling centers (i.e. Dominion (***'s),Issaquah, Apex, TDS.....etc.) Let those guys spend the coin on those million dollar milling, printing, additive machines. Besides, the service, turn-around time, and ease of using a milling center is so easy and such a breeze. Just my .02 cents worth......
 
kcdt

kcdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,845
Reaction score
632
Great advice, Paul. If I were looking to jump into CAD CAM a scanner to out source is the first step. I've been hearing that there's a lot of over capacity in milling right now, and with the machines evolving as fast as they are, a small lab could easily get stuck with a dinosaur they can't use and still have to pay off. I'd outsource the milling until things shake out and pricing gets lower.
 
T

timbangley

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Does any one know when the new 3M scanner will be on the market ? Because 3M and Jenson have not a clue.
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
Does any one know when the new 3M scanner will be on the market ? Because 3M and Jenson have not a clue.

Throw a few a large bills under the table and maybe Scott can find a used Lava scanner . :D
Throw a few bills my way, and I will tell you what not to buy.....:D

If I had to do it over again, I might buy the cheapest scanner you can buy that produces nice fits, easy to use software with great support. Most importantly, visit the company and watch someone design some of your cases, and see the results after there milled before you buy.
Spending 12 to 32K or more on a scanner is a lot to spend with new technology changing so fast. You must make a very educated investment in "time" before you buy. Unless you want total control of your crowns, buying a miller may not be the wisest decision with zirconia coping/full contour prices getting cheaper. :rolleyes: Sorry, I'm a control freak:D
 
DMC

DMC

Banned
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
260
Tim, I will be one of the first to know. I'll tell ya.

Nobody knows at the moment.

End of June?

I want the new scanner as well.
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
817
Tim, I will be one of the first to know. I'll tell ya.

Nobody knows at the moment.

End of June?

I want the new scanner as well.

I've been trying to get one for the last week, even called you, thanks for getting back with me :( Furthermore, 3M isn't even training right now either. They won't even make an appointment for you to get trained yet, let alone buy a machine....grrrr This is really forcing me to go a different way because I need a scanner like yesterday. If I don't hear something in the next week or so definitively, I have no choice but to go elsewhere (i.e. dental wings).
 
P

Paul Drufva

Member
Messages
37
Reaction score
1
I've been looking into th 3M scanner also and am getting a little put off. I have lots of questions for which I am getting few answers. The price looks real tempting though at 12.5K What do some of the others sell for? Dental wings I know are 20-30K. What about 3 shape or 3do? I've asked to see If I could get training BEFORE buying, but was told no. I feel like they,3M, may be hiding something.
 
DMC

DMC

Banned
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
260
Only happy customers at 3M.
It works great for me.

I believe almost all of the ten year old original scanners are still working just fine.
Same with all the mills.

None for sale used, or I'd buy them.

You'd be smart to wait for the new Jensen/3M/DentalWings/Straumann scanner and software.
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
817
I've been looking into th 3M scanner also and am getting a little put off. I have lots of questions for which I am getting few answers. The price looks real tempting though at 12.5K What do some of the others sell for? Dental wings I know are 20-30K. What about 3 shape or 3do? I've asked to see If I could get training BEFORE buying, but was told no. I feel like they,3M, may be hiding something.

I'm right there with you Paul...I love 3M and love there R&D even better and will commend them on not sending out a crappy product right out the gate but don't offer a practically open scanner w/software for 12.5K without even having the product to offer or the training...just saying. The Jensen reps are just as miffed as we are. I can't wait forever, I have to pull the trigger on something...grrrr
 
Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

New Member
Messages
1,908
Reaction score
13
Only happy customers at 3M.
You'd be smart to wait for the new Jensen/3M/DentalWings/Straumann scanner and software.

Hahahaha
:doh:

Yeah I'd just wait. End of June. Yeah, end of June. Don't rush out and do anything crazy like buy a 3Shape, just wait until the end of June. In January, the new 3M full contour zirconia will be ready, but really, no later than the midwinter. Or possibly the end of June.

I'd just wait til the end of June. EVERYTHING will change and the best of the best will come at the end of June.

ONLY happy customers at 3M...starting at the end of June.

Definately the end of June. Earth shaking changes. End of June for sure. I'll be selling all my other equipment so I can get this revolutionary new stuff in at the End of June.
 
Last edited:
Mark Jackson

Mark Jackson

New Member
Messages
1,908
Reaction score
13
I've been looking into th 3M scanner also and am getting a little put off.

I feel like they,3M, may be hiding something.

Only Happy customers at 3M! Just give me a call and I'll give you a long, long list of happy customers.

By all means, send your deposit in right away! Better lock one in before all the happy Lava labs like me buy them up!
 
Slipstream

Slipstream

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
361
Reaction score
3
$12.500 would get you close to the new D500 from 3Shape would it not - and it can do Lava to keep Scott happy - well not happy but an approximation of happy?

That said, we haven't ordered one yet so they may not be shipping, end of May was the start date.
 
P

Paul Drufva

Member
Messages
37
Reaction score
1
Hi Mark,Somehow I thought you might find this funny. What would your recomendations be? Is there anything else out there that is much less than double the cost of the 3M? 20K is just way too much to spend for us little guys, and according to my sales rep at Jensen 1-5 man/women labs are 85% of their business, so there are probably a lot of us out there. I,ve waited 20 years, what's a few more weeks? You are usually quite helpful with your comments. I am surprised.
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
As of Monday of this week, there were 2 iMetric Delcam scanners for sale in stock, no waiting for months like me.. Delcam told me they would probably be sold by Friday. Bascially the same price as 3Shape . Will post some pictures of scans over the weekend with a little help from someone out there ... Yo Rob, or Scott, shoot me a PM...
 
P

paulg100

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
42
yeah id really like to see that charles.

Are you milling in house or out sourcing, and how are the fits so far?

There may be a better way, but you know you can printscreen and paste image into photoshop (or simliar prog) right?
 

Similar threads

R
Replies
0
Views
306
renewdentalartsclt
R
R
Replies
0
Views
498
renewdentalartsclt
R
O
Replies
11
Views
1K
tehnik
tehnik
sidesh0wb0b
Replies
6
Views
657
Doris A
Doris A
Top Bottom