Looking for a New System.....

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First of all, i wasn't too sure in which forum category this belonged, so i chose this one.

i'll keep this short and simple. 3 years ago i purchased the Sirona inLab Cerec MXCL, and needless to say, there have been many of heartache and headache that has come along with it in the past 3 years as well. It has served it's purpose, and now it's time to move on to big and better things. i'm looking for a new system and here are some requirements i'd like. any suggestions would be helpful.
  • An open system. (Truly open.) I'd like to mix and match my scanner and/or milling unit and i'd like for them to work together seamlessly.
  • I'd like to also use this scanner to scan removables as well. I'd like to eventually scan for metal partials and send the files to have printed out in wax/plastic.
  • I would like for the new milling unit to be able to mill metal. I'm trying to eliminate waxing inside the lab and i would like to mill directly to metal rather than milling in wax, spruing, investing, casting, de-vesting, etc....
 
Sevan P

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First of all welcome to the forum.

Mix n match.............Exocad/Medit scanners and to eliminate wax and mill metal at least an Imes 450i. Primo setup but a heavy $$$ startup.
 
ParkwayDental

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Well I think you need to get a 3Shape and Imes Icore 450i. We run a couple 3Shape scanners and multiple design stations. We recently picked up our imes icore 450i at the end of August from CAP. mills zirconia, wax, pmma, CrCo, titanium, and Emax. Great machine. We also have a 3D printer for our partials and wax prints. 3Shape and a imes icore 450i will do it all for you and just send your partial frames to be printed to me ;)

Here are several pics of what we have done with our 3Shape and imes icore 450i. It will do everything!!!!












 
cadfan

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http://www.siladent.de/images/SilaMill_5_DE_EN_09.13.pdf its the new vhf wieland ivoclar however they worked on a partial option although stacking optional camsoftware is new maybe better than the old ?? all engine sold by reseller so the price is maybe 10000 Euro less in production quallity ?? stacking 8000 Euro
http://www.imes-icore.de/branchen/page.php?id=150&title=CORiTEC+250i new 5 achs small mill maybe best in that range
http://www.imes-icore.de/branchen/page.php?id=121&title=CORiTEC+450i+++loader best option that time price performance direct and reseller stacking 17000 Euro
after these mills the price rise 25000 Euro

Take a look at all these mills dont be impresed after cerec all of them will be miles away but look at service or possibility to make a further education to do it by your own repair and creating new milling strategies maybe.Whats after guarantee whats while the mill strikes how fast they help you , that service you have to pay for your reseller has to educate his stuff thats expensive so you find it in the different price of the mill .VHF for example its sometimes very difficult very silly structure between the resellers and vhf not really service oriented they grown to fast.

let some guys with that mills do some cases for you with undercuts and difficult forms like buccal deluded bridge have a special look at the cam software its the heart of every mill.
with the right cam its normally no problem to adapt it on every modern scanner and cad software.take time every hour research is good invested.
 
ParkwayDental

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Side note bars are not yet applicable with the 450i but it will be done.
 
C

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wow, thank you for all the replies.

how much would it cost to print out the wax/plastic frameworks? do you use wax or plastics? and how's the results of the fit after casting?
 
C

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this looks like an awesome set up! Where can i find more info on the imes icore 450i? i've tried to go to there website and i see they are in Germany. Which distributor could you buy this through in the US? and if you don't mind me asking, what is the ball park price of this unit?


Well I think you need to get a 3Shape and Imes Icore 450i. We run a couple 3Shape scanners and multiple design stations. We recently picked up our imes icore 450i at the end of August from CAP. mills zirconia, wax, pmma, CrCo, titanium, and Emax. Great machine. We also have a 3D printer for our partials and wax prints. 3Shape and a imes icore 450i will do it all for you and just send your partial frames to be printed to me ;)

Here are several pics of what we have done with our 3Shape and imes icore 450i. It will do everything!!!!












 
ParkwayDental

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Check out CAP in Stoneham MA. That's were we bought ares from.
 
DMC

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Bars are really really tough. Seriously.

Each One needs extra special attention to the CAM. I have a bucket now of screw-ups. (whoops)

Could take up to a full day to sort out the strategy for some shapes.

There are a ton of interfaces to master milling. Each One requires a special strategy.

Nothing at all like milling copings and FCZs. It is a totally new world of CAM and tooling.

We now stock probably Thirty different tools for bars. Some I never knew existed.

Took months and months (over a year now) to go out and find all the right tools!

That is a challenge in itself! LOL Just when you think you have everything you could possibly needs, then up comes a situation where you need longer reach, or smoother finish, or less vibrations, or something else to get the job done.
 
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ParkwayDental

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how much was the imps 450? i am trying to get out of my rolland.

I want to say we payed around 85k for everything. Advanced Sum3D, Materials, Mill, Wet Milling option.
 
Orthodox

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Hello Martin, I'm in front of an hard decision, I'm running inside the forum like a Dog for a Bone :) I'm too much confused, couple of months ago I was thinking for Datron D5, somebody changed my mind and told my about 450i, so please let me ask you some details about 450i, can I mill FullArch (14 elements, not separated) in CoCR with 450i - its just an example, what about the Margin, can 450i do a perfect fit to a shoulder when you mill more than one element in CoCr? It will be good from your side if you can help me.
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And please tel about the 4-th picture that you have posted, is that "Bars" how the call it, and its possible to bi milled in 450i

Regards
Labi
 
ParkwayDental

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Hello Martin, I'm in front of an hard decision, I'm running inside the forum like a Dog for a Bone :) I'm too much confused, couple of months ago I was thinking for Datron D5, somebody changed my mind and told my about 450i, so please let me ask you some details about 450i, can I mill FullArch (14 elements, not separated) in CoCR with 450i - its just an example, what about the Margin, can 450i do a perfect fit to a shoulder when you mill more than one element in CoCr? It will be good from your side if you can help me.
---------------------------------------
And please tel about the 4-th picture that you have posted, is that "Bars" how the call it, and its possible to bi milled in 450i

Regards
Labi

Look I am going to be honest with you, if you can afford the Datron D5 get it! It is one hell of a machine and will do anything and I mean anything! As far as the 450i it is a great machine no doubts about it. I am in love with it and wish I had more of them. It mills zirconia, emax blue blocks, wax, pmma, CrCo, Ti it does it all but I will say it has its limitations. If you have a 14 unit full arch you want to demo I can try and mill it for you. To be honest the only CrCo we mill is just single unit full cast and they come out great. Just cut the sprues off and it takes less then 3 minutes to polish it. The fits on all materials are dead on, the milled emax is amazing and the the zirconia units are smoother then a babys butt.

Now as far as "Bars" it can mill them there is no doubt about it but and a big BUT they don't fit. It maybe due to the milling strategy or the precision of the machine. I have heard one company say they are achieving great results milling bars off of their 450i but they are still testing things and playing around so it is not official.
 
S

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Look-up 750i. It would be cheaper and maybe better than D5 (at least not worse).
 
Orthodox

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Martin thanx a lot for your information, and also I have to thank you for that offering me a demo for 14 unit full arch, BUT if you are in U.S. I'm on the other side of the planet :) I'm in Macedonia but thanks again and keep in touch, before I decide..
BTW, Can I scan a 14 unit full arch, off course with a perfect SHOULDER Preparation (how you say it, maybe Decortication. No mater, i think that we understood each others) and send it to you as a STL file and than to check how its going to fit the margine?

Thanks again.
 
ParkwayDental

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Martin thanx a lot for your information, and also I have to thank you for that offering me a demo for 14 unit full arch, BUT if you are in U.S. I'm on the other side of the planet :) I'm in Macedonia but thanks again and keep in touch, before I decide..
BTW, Can I scan a 14 unit full arch, off course with a perfect SHOULDER Preparation (how you say it, maybe Decortication. No mater, i think that we understood each others) and send it to you as a STL file and than to check how its going to fit the margine?

Thanks again.

Not a problem you can send it to [email protected] and I will get it done. I am in the US.
 
Orthodox

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Martin did you tried with 450i telescopes?
 
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