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Laser Welder Advice??

Discussion in 'Metal' started by PCDL, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. PCDL
    Artistic

    PCDL Member

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    Well, my old Com4Laser has just about had it. Time to shop around for a new welder. I have been looking at the BTI welder, and it seems pretty slick. Anyone have any experience, general recommendations? I'd like to be under $25k.
  2. droberts
    Energetic

    droberts Active Member Donator

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    I have one of BTI's V4. I believe they are not selling that one anymore. I have been told for continuous commercial use, the new one they have advertised for around $18 to 19,000 works just as good. The best thing of all, they offer great support.
    Main thing with lasers if welding Titanium. You need to make sure it as ample flow of argon. Internal cooling " compressed air". You already have one, most likely you have a good idea what you are looking for:)
  3. PCDL
    Artistic

    PCDL Member

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    That's the nice thing about my old Com4. Big argon chamber and on board air flow. I do weld a bit of ti, but I do a ton with CrCo, and precious alloy. That sucker is on all day long.
  4. Drizzt

    Drizzt Well-Known Member Donator

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  5. Shaun Keating

    Shaun Keating New Member

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    We used the Laserstar for years with ok results. We've had the Primotec Phaser AS2 for the last few years. It's a pulsed micro arc welder the truly kicks ass. Our connections are truly perosity free, and it's so easy to use. I paid a hell of alot more for the 50 jewel Laserster....I think the Promotec was about 10K?
  6. rhicks3302

    rhicks3302 Member

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    2 different technologies, not really comparable. Lots more applications with a laser.
  7. rhicks3302

    rhicks3302 Member

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    I loved my big old COM4 too. That sucker was a work horse. I have a V4 also. I've used and trained on BTI's new LM-D 60. It's a good unit. I'm not sure of the price but I think Danny's in the ballpark. You've welded, you get it. Getting used to the LM-D 60 would be like driving a new car.
  8. PCDL
    Artistic

    PCDL Member

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    Thanks, I'm leaning towards the LMD-60. Seems like an easy transition. Plus the speed seems Awesome!
  9. Shaun Keating

    Shaun Keating New Member

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    Well I got both.....so I have pretty much have any application covered for both fixed and removable:cool:
  10. droberts
    Energetic

    droberts Active Member Donator

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    Shaun,

    Thats great! Cause you cannot compare a single pulse tig welder to a variable pulse laser. Not apples to apples. The Phaser reminds me back in the day of the Yates and Bird Soldering machine. Production wise, "Laser" hands down:cool:
  11. JohnWilson

    JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member

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    I have said it many times My Gramm alpha laser has been the best tool I have every purchased for my lab. It has never once broke down or needed repair in almost 10 years now. It makes me money every day and saves me more labor than I care to think about. I truly have no idea how I ever got along with out one.
  12. Shaun Keating

    Shaun Keating New Member

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    I did over a 120 thousand restorations last year, and the Primotec handled our production very nicely. And as I compare these two technologies in real life, in the trenches, in production......the Primotec blows away the LaserStar in price, quality, and service:) That's just my humble opinion Doc Roberts:p
  13. droberts
    Energetic

    droberts Active Member Donator

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    Cute with the tongue Shaun...I am not a doc, tech just the same.
    OK, I'm glad you have bothpopcorn
  14. Shaun Keating

    Shaun Keating New Member

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    Just messing with ya dude.....but I am passionate about products that we use, and the profession we are in. I will always give an honest assesment to my fellow dental technicians on what works and what doesn't. I'm not in bed with any company, and I never will be......rock on droberts, I'm glad to hear you're a dental technician:)
  15. rhicks3302

    rhicks3302 Member

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    Gotta agree with you, Shaun. In 12 years of teaching laser welding at BTI, I've trained dozens of Laserstar users that claimed that CPP didn't teach them anything about applications. It's not a bad laser, but it's a jewelry laser, meant for welding precious metals, that has been adapted for our industry. I've worked with a number of Laserstar units and, ON EVERY ONE OF THEM, the argon tube was too short. You don't need a lot of argon to weld gold, but with NP, CrCo and titanium, argon coverage is crucial for a strong weld. Did they tell you this, Shaun? All they had to do was lengthen the argon tube and the welds would be fine, but they didn't and, to my knowledge, they still don't provide an adequate argon tube. For years, their website showed examples of partial denture welding that was awful. Brown,dull and crinkly looking. Anything but shiny is bad. Probably why your results were only 'ok'.

    The fact that you mentioned that the LaserStar has 50 joules means that they are still "teaching" a lot of penetration welding. In our industry, a laser's "power" doesn't mean much, unless you want to blow holes through stuff. The most I ever use is about 60% of my laser's available power.

    Shaun, did they teach you how to do margins, holes, contacts, bridge connections, add metal occlusals, redirect pontics, major connectors, minor connectors, clasps, occlusals rests, partial retention, finish lines? How about implant bars and hybrid frames, custom abutments for implant crowns, custom locator abutments,or implant bar reconstructions. Maybe fix or add retention, or an attachment to a CAD/CAM bar?......no?

    I'm glad you've got all your bases covered, man, but I think you've spent $10,000 too much.:cool: These bozos are why labs are replacing their laser welders with glorified soldering machines.
  16. Shaun Keating

    Shaun Keating New Member

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    Great post dude....and you're right on the money with most of it. We got taught how to penetrate mostly with the laserstar...that sounds so nasty:D The guys from Primotec really sat down with my staff, and showed us so much....especially with all the removable we do. Even with fixed we are casting most all our bridgework, and then connecting them with the Phaser....it's pretty cool for sure. I might need to fly your ass out here to do us an audit to see how we can do things better:)
  17. rhicks3302

    rhicks3302 Member

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    Obviously, I'll never be on Primotec's Christmas card list(Definitely not CPP's either) but at least it sounds like they provide adequate training for their customers.
  18. Rugardave

    Rugardave New Member

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    PCDL, were you at the original Dentaurum work shop back in 99? I have a Com4 also and I'm looking for parts. Are you still using it or are you planning on parting it out?
  19. DentureDude
    Relaxed

    DentureDude trained monkey

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    i have to agree.
    i like the phaser. not just because its so much cheaper. i think it fills gaps better.
  20. Mark Jackson

    Mark Jackson New Member

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    We use one too, and it works great once you get past the learning curve. I just jump like an idiot every time I use it. The ARC startles me, and it's worse knowing it's coming. The best practice I ever did was sitting down on a saturday and welding the eyes closed on 100 stainless steel fishing hooks.

    Great little machine.

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