• Welcome to Dental Lab Network
    1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

    Laminating mouth guards

    Discussion in 'Denturist' started by Toothtechniques, Apr 29, 2016.

    1. Toothtechniques

      Toothtechniques New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Apr 2016
      Messages:
      12
      Likes Received:
      0
      Still struggling to eliminate bubbles, air being trapped between 1mm & 4/5mm blanks when laminating. I've tried suggested methods, making small holes in first blank prior to pulling down 1mm blank still can't get a bubble free mouth guard.
      Any other ideas greatly appreciated
       
    2. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      I don't think this is possible, there will be delamination. No matter how hot I have gotten them they seem to not want to bond. Paint a thin layer of clear acrylic between first and second stage? Monomer will yellow the Essex material. Why don't you just layer clear acrylic on the thermoform.
       
    3. JohnWilson

      JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2008
      Messages:
      5,464
      Likes Received:
      1,595
      Location:
      Yucaipa California

      What machine are you using?
       
    4. Toothtechniques

      Toothtechniques New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Apr 2016
      Messages:
      12
      Likes Received:
      0
      As long as you degreese properly with acetone & preheat first blank you don't have delamination issues.


      QUOTE="JKraver, post: 211585, member: 13886"]I don't think this is possible, there will be delamination. No matter how hot I have gotten them they seem to not want to bond. Paint a thin layer of clear acrylic between first and second stage? Monomer will yellow the Essex material. Why don't you just layer clear acrylic on the thermoform.[/QUOTE]
       
    5. Toothtechniques

      Toothtechniques New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Apr 2016
      Messages:
      12
      Likes Received:
      0
      Pro form vac former, got a pressure former drufamat but I like to see the 2nd blank being drawn over the first that's why I use the vac forming technique.
       
    6. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      I too have the same issues; did you ever figure out how to solve the problem? I'm using the Ministar @ 90psi with great lakes thermal forming materials 2mm and 3mm. I have tried the hole puncture technique, acetone, heat gun between layers technique and I still have delamination and or bubbles. Can somebody please elaborate with further details on exactly how to avoid these bubbles. In addition I installed an inline desiccant air dryer and oil remover for the air compressor. Any other suggestions! like better brand materials, equipment and or technique!
       
    7. GarryB

      GarryB Active Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Mar 2012
      Messages:
      278
      Likes Received:
      96
      Location:
      Yorkshire in the UK
      Where are your bubbles forming, how big and how many? are they forming in undercut areas?

      I trim a groove in the palate so when the foil is formed the air is pushed out and not trapped which causes bubbles. Also trim any excess plaster away from around the model so the foil doesn't have to stretch over this area which will again trap air.

      I let the second foil sag so it is just touching the tips of the teeth before pressing (we pressure form).
       
    8. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      [/QUOTE]
      I was running the wrong hold time, took a course at the FDC.
       
    9. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      I was running the wrong hold time, took a course at the FDC.[/QUOTE]

      Hey can you elaborate on what you meant when you said: "wrong hold time"?
       
    10. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1

      I wish I could post pictures, but yes Drufomat?
       
    11. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      Thank you for the advice, I will try that today! But what thermal forming machine do you use? Drufomat? Because with the Ministar I'm not able to allow it to sag.
       
    12. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      Call essix raintree, they have a different program for the second layer.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    13. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      Hey can you elaborate on what you meant when you said: "wrong hold time"?[/QUOTE]
      There is a heat time and a hold time. The hold time on second lamination is something like 6+minutes.
       
    14. TomZ
      Amused

      TomZ Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jan 2008
      Messages:
      726
      Likes Received:
      252
      Why not just use a hard/soft dual laminate material?
      Bruxism%20nightguard%20gums.jpg
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Like Like x 1
    15. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      Hmmm thank you ill try that!
       
    16. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      I thought he was looking for a sports mouth guard, hard softs are great.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    17. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      I ordered the (Hard/Soft) but when judging your post response I get the impression that you don't think the recommended hard soft product would be the right material for a clear bubbles second layer? I just wanna make sure that I'm purchasing the right materials.
       
    18. ricandiazz

      ricandiazz New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2017
      Messages:
      7
      Likes Received:
      1
      There is a heat time and a hold time. The hold time on second lamination is something like 6+minutes.[/QUOTE]

      I'm using the Ministar S Thermal former and in this machine there's only the scanned bar code times for the great Lakes mouth guard materials. So when you say hold time is up to 6 min; are you talking about allowing the first layer to set for over 6 min or allowing the second layer to cool for 6 min. I'm not understanding your hold time reference or maybe its not applicable to my machine. and thank you for your responses your awesome =)
       
      • Like Like x 1
    19. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451
      I have a drufomat scan, it heats then presses then holds under pressure then releases. I am not familiar with minister.
       
    20. JKraver
      Tired

      JKraver Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jun 2015
      Messages:
      2,671
      Likes Received:
      451

    Share This Page