keep Margin shy-ing

GAP

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I'm really gonna put myself out there and let you guys have at me for a few.
Can y'all share some tips on how you do margins/ how to prevent shying up margins? .

When's the last time you calibrated the burnout furnace? Checked the regulators on oxy/prop tanks (maybe someone messed with it?)

RE waxing: I'll take my electric waxer and run it around the margin to seal the wax and while still warm, cut the margin so the carver doesn't pull the wax. One guy I learned from, told me to try duralay around the margin...never did tho, just giving you options

RE fitting metal coping: Indicator spray works nicely for interal interferences. For NP alloy I take a hi speed w/ worn #8 round bur and burnish the margin.

Are you turning 40? thats when the eyes start to loose the ability to focus -- for the general population.
 
JMN

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Thanks everbody. I'll see what tomorrow brings.
 
kimba

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I have found that if I wax to far past the margin in causes the patern to splay outwards when I remove it of the die, not enoughto see but when I trim the margin back when polishing there will be a small gap and the margin will suddenly disappear at final polish. I drum into my technicians to wax Too he margin not over and to slightly burnish wax with a piece of stocking. Hope this helps a bit I know how frustrating these problems are, . I also have no hair left , itb was past my shoulders when I began 20 years ago!!!
 
doug

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Are you finishing the copings on the die? IF you're just holding them and finishing, that may be an issue to re-visit. At least finish the margins on the dies.
 
JMN

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I have found that if I wax to far past the margin in causes the patern to splay outwards when I remove it of the die, not enoughto see but when I trim the margin back when polishing there will be a small gap and the margin will suddenly disappear at final polish. I drum into my technicians to wax Too he margin not over and to slightly burnish wax with a piece of stocking. Hope this helps a bit I know how frustrating these problems are, . I also have no hair left , itb was past my shoulders when I began 20 years ago!!!

That sound real possible! Thanks much!

My wife just volunteered a pair of kneehighs for me to take snips from. This sounds exactly like it makes sense for all the oddities I'm encountering. This would even account for how margins bend even when grinding while it's on the die.

I had thought before that it may have been too much dielube and was blowing it off to the point they barely released after 45-60 min.

My hair was 1/2 down my back 20 yrs ago... With a tiedye bandanna headband, flannel shirt and black full length coat. Yeah... Why do nostalgia and amnesia, seem to go hand in hand?
 
JMN

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Are you finishing the copings on the die? IF you're just holding them and finishing, that may be an issue to re-visit. At least finish the margins on the dies.

I've done it both ways, and they will sometimes get a bit stuck on the die when I do that. Scares me, don't wanna chip the die.
 
JMN

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Can y'all let me know what make/model of steroscope you have? And where you got it?
 
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I've done it both ways, and they will sometimes get a bit stuck on the die when I do that. Scares me, don't wanna chip the die.
Dough is right, you have to finish the margin on the die. Be gentle,
caress that margin.
 
2thm8kr

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Can y'all let me know what make/model of steroscope you have? And where you got it?

Swift stereo 80. 10x-20x. I think I got it from Harris.
 
wwcanoer

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check the temperature of your burnout oven, and not with those little tabs that melt at set temp., your heating coils could be wearing out so that true temp isn't what the read-out says, or one side is hotter ,etc. when my coils started to fail, my castings were all over the place. the continuity tested ok, but had it re-wound anyway and things are fitting again.

good luck!
 
desertfox384

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You wont chip or hit margins if you have a microscope, and if the waxer uses a scope you'll have much less to finish once the coping is cast. I have a scope that looks just like the one in the picture above.. Wherever I go it goes with me. I have no problem with the lense.
 
doug

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There are lots of scopes on ebay. Choose carefully and get a ring light for it.I have both the twin light and ring lights and I prefer the ring light, no shadows at all

stereo microscope | eBay
 
JMN

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check the temperature of your burnout oven, and not with those little tabs that melt at set temp., your heating coils could be wearing out so that true temp isn't what the read-out says, or one side is hotter ,etc. when my coils started to fail, my castings were all over the place. the continuity tested ok, but had it re-wound anyway and things are fitting again.

good luck!


I just replaced the coil in April. So that should be fine. Thanks though.
 
JMN

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Okay everybody, got it back together. Thanks so much for all the input. Amazing that I've learned how many more things than I would have thought can have an effect. What I've got working for me now is

Waxing only to the margin and not 1 bit over it.
Hose burnishing of the wax.
Finishing die on coping, "caressing gently", looking thru between coping and bur to see when to stop.
Handpiece control set at ~17K on start/stop.
Kept moving around the die/coping combo until it is finished down to prevent heat-burnishing the metal.
Doing the margins first, then the rest worked out best.

Could slid your fingernail over all of then and not feel the transition junction.

Got 10 out today with no modification needed by the boss.

Oh man that felt good.

Thanks to you all! Many of your suggestions helped trememdously.

I'm still gonna lobby for using a microscope though, never thought about using one for this, have a cheapo at my electronics bench here at home, but there's no way it would hold up...

Might buy it myself and write it off on my own taxes..., I think that's still possible.
 
JMN

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There are lots of scopes on ebay. Choose carefully and get a ring light for it.I have both the twin light and ring lights and I prefer the ring light, no shadows at all

stereo microscope | eBay

A ring bulb's lack of shadows doesn't confuse your inference of depth?
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

Marcusthegladiator CDT

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Okay everybody, got it back together. Thanks so much for all the input. Amazing that I've learned how many more things than I would have thought can have an effect. What I've got working for me now is

Waxing only to the margin and not 1 bit over it.
Hose burnishing of the wax.
Finishing die on coping, "caressing gently", looking thru between coping and bur to see when to stop.
Handpiece control set at ~17K on start/stop.
Kept moving around the die/coping combo until it is finished down to prevent heat-burnishing the metal.
Doing the margins first, then the rest worked out best.

Could slid your fingernail over all of then and not feel the transition junction.

Got 10 out today with no modification needed by the boss.

Oh man that felt good.

Thanks to you all! Many of your suggestions helped trememdously.

I'm still gonna lobby for using a microscope though, never thought about using one for this, have a cheapo at my electronics bench here at home, but there's no way it would hold up...

Might buy it myself and write it off on my own taxes..., I think that's still possible.


That's awesome that you had a good day!
Definitely get yourself your own scope. You'll take it with you the rest of your career. And it feels good to own your own tools. Your more of a tradesman with your own tools...
 
JMN

JMN

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That's awesome that you had a good day!
Definitely get yourself your own scope. You'll take it with you the rest of your career. And it feels good to own your own tools. Your more of a tradesman with your own tools...


Not really anywhere to take it, unless wife & I moved. In my area we're basically the only lab for quite a few miles. But you're right about owning your tools, have all my electonics & computer gear still...
 
JMN

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Oh, I found an interesting phenomenon to anyone else who hadn't noticed it before (I can't be the only one),when you "trap" air between two objects, it begins to act as a lens, magnifiying the near contact points that are "trapping" that light path. This showed with amazing clarity the difference between coping margin and die margin.

Edit: or maybe the placebo effect isn't limited to medications...
 
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