Just wired the money for versamill 5x-200for bars

prestige.dental

prestige.dental

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looking forward to 4 day training for milling bars on hyperdent cam software.
650 was gonna take too much time and I find the 3D biocad support very friendly and very humble people.
 
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Sevan P

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Hope it works out for you, For the footprint of that mill it sure can handle a lot.
 
prestige.dental

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Hope it works out for you, For the footprint of that mill it sure can handle a lot.
Thanks Sevan, you are always positive and always helpful. I really respect this awesome attitude.
 
brayks

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looking forward to 4 day training for milling bars on hyperdent cam software.
650 was gonna take too much time and I find the 3D biocad support very friendly and very humble people.

Actually your will not be getting a Versamill 5X200.

3D BioCAD does not distribute Versamill machines. Versamills are only distributed by Axsys Dental Solutions and contain many modifications and enhancements exclusive to us. These modifications are based on our nearly 40 years of CNC and "digital" manufacturing experience and directly affect speed, reliability, accuracy, repeatability and quality of output.

3D BioCAD markets Arum machines branded as TruMILL. I'm not sure if they differ in any way from the stock Arum machines, however it is still a fine machine and we really like the guys at 3D BioCAD.

Best
Steve
 
prestige.dental

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Actually your will not be getting a Versamill 5X200.

3D BioCAD does not distribute Versamill machines. Versamills are only distributed by Axsys Dental Solutions and contain many modifications and enhancements exclusive to us. These modifications are based on our nearly 40 years of CNC and "digital" manufacturing experience and directly affect speed, reliability, accuracy, repeatability and quality of output.

3D BioCAD markets Arum machines branded as TruMILL. I'm not sure if they differ in any way from the stock Arum machines, however it is still a fine machine and we really like the guys at 3D BioCAD.

Best
Steve
Hello Steve:

I have been told true mill and versamill are exactly the same machine. Just the sticker is different because it's the same Kia weather you buy it from Michigan or Washington.
Would u mind telling us how your machine is different.

Thanks
 
brayks

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Hello Steve:

I have been told true mill and versamill are exactly the same machine. Just the sticker is different because it's the same Kia weather you buy it from Michigan or Washington.
Would u mind telling us how your machine is different.

Thanks

Actually, that is not quite the case. I would be interested in knowing who might have provided you with that information as versamills are decidedly different.

Of course the machines are the same when they leave the OEM. Versamills are delivered to our corporate facility before delivery to the end-user. This is where the versamill magic happens.

I can tell you SOME things however, unfortunately in the interest of preserving our intellectual property, I am unable to share many of the details.

Some that I can share include, redesigned and custom manufactured fixtures and cartridges, modified control parameters affecting tool change, axes positioning, spindle drive performance, coolant delivery and numerous other hardware related modifications.

Additionally our machining templates differ significantly (more robust, faster, higher quality results, less post-machining hand-work, etc.) from that which is provided by the manufacturer or any other distributor of Arum machines.
 
vurban210

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Actually, that is not quite the case. I would be interested in knowing who might have provided you with that information as versamills are decidedly different.

Of course the machines are the same when they leave the OEM. Versamills are delivered to our corporate facility before delivery to the end-user. This is where the versamill magic happens.

I can tell you SOME things however, unfortunately in the interest of preserving our intellectual property, I am unable to share many of the details.

Some that I can share include, redesigned and custom manufactured fixtures and cartridges, modified control parameters affecting tool change, axes positioning, spindle drive performance, coolant delivery and numerous other hardware related modifications.

Additionally our machining templates differ significantly (more robust, faster, higher quality results, less post-machining hand-work, etc.) from that which is provided by the manufacturer or any other distributor of Arum machines.

Brayks, kinda BS when people use your good name to sell their stuff. I can't stand it when people tell people lies to get a sale.

Kind of like saying a stock Mustang and a Shelby Mustang GT are the same thing. Yea..... not really.
 
Affinity

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ouch, i think i wouldve found that out before wiring the money?
 
CoolHandLuke

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i expect its a rough road marketing this kind of machine. i imagine its a lot like the audio equipment market.

regular moes dont really understand enough about it to make an informed decision, nor enough to recognize the differences between Sennheiser and Bose.

but different they are.
 
prestige.dental

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Actually, that is not quite the case. I would be interested in knowing who might have provided you with that information as versamills are decidedly different.

Of course the machines are the same when they leave the OEM. Versamills are delivered to our corporate facility before delivery to the end-user. This is where the versamill magic happens.

I can tell you SOME things however, unfortunately in the interest of preserving our intellectual property, I am unable to share many of the details.

Some that I can share include, redesigned and custom manufactured fixtures and cartridges, modified control parameters affecting tool change, axes positioning, spindle drive performance, coolant delivery and numerous other hardware related modifications.

Additionally our machining templates differ significantly (more robust, faster, higher quality results, less post-machining hand-work, etc.) from that which is provided by the manufacturer or any other distributor of Arum machines.
Hello Steve:

I had tried contacting you few weeks ago before I knew of 3D Biocad, but your secretary would not give me your cell and I left my cell with her but I never got call back from you.
May be u never got the message.
 
brayks

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WOW. I never got a message to contact you.

I wonder who took the message and why he/she did not provide my cellphone number to you in the first place (standard practice is to give it if asked as I am most often not in the office).

This warrants some investigation on my end for sure. Do you happen to remember the persons name that received your call?

I recently returned from two week trip to Alaska, where cellphone coverage and Internet access was almost non existent. I wonder if that message went the way of some of my other "lost" communications.

Very unfortunate for both of us really, but like I said, you still got a good machine...
 
Beatrice

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For my personal curiosity how much is the retail on a machine like that, plus how much for training, plus how many hours of training at your salary (the owner of the lab i presume) plus how many hour it will take to mill 1 bar DIVIDED by how many bar you do again per month?

It a cool toy to have I can agree, but how can you compete with big player like US, Nobel, 3i, Dentsply? By selling bar around 799$ so that mean LOW profit? that mean you will what take 10 years to pay back your machine IF it still run in 10 years?

I mean, you would tell me abutment, crown and bridge i could understand,
BAR? All lab that went into making their own bar have trouble, either money or machine wise, all of them have to sell their bar to other lab to TRY to make profit out of their machine and they do not succeed, even glidewell is not making real money with implant bar.

A real machine do to all bars is around 500K plus training plus installation, plus X-Y-Z.
What gonna happen the day your spindle will need to be replace and parts will take 1-2 week to get there plus time to replace and re-calibrate? Hope you already have bought a second machine in case.

I don't want to be a dream killer, but I just don't understand why so much lab owner want to mill their bar to that point of loosing thousand of $$ when they could outsource.
You want cheap bar : there is many solution out there from 499 to 800$
You want quality : there is many solution out there from 800-1500$


You outsource 1 bar per year, you make profit
You outsource 200 bars per year, you make more profit
ZERO trouble, always perfectly cheap or high-end (depend of provider obviously)

I mean, i don't get it.
What is the real motivation ?
Don't say profit : there none to be done here
Passion? Maybe okay,
Quality : no way, not with that machine
Turn-around time : ****, you really need a bar in 48 hour? You sure after the patient waited 6 month for is implant to heal it cannot wait 5-7 workings days ? Seriously?
Just because your are rich and want to have fun : maybe okay i get it.
Service ? Have you tried us? ;)

To OP : you don't have to answer, just think about it, for all other, if you have a suggestion to my question, feel free to tell me, I am lost again.

Best regards
 
CoolHandLuke

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bernie

the reason people buy this kind of machine is to say "I can do it" instead of "i will send it to someone who can do it"

the majority of bars will be terrible - because they will make maybe 2-3 per year so the experience is not there. (i have never done one in my career!) but this complex stuff is more valuable than 50$ zirconia single units. so people buy this complex machine that can do complex stuff because they want to grow.

it is fantastic that you make all day bars. your consistency and design are fantastic.

but you charge a premium (rightly).

so spend money short term, make money long term. quality is moot. there will always be work.
 
cadfan

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200 bars per year 650 i or LMU 200 both paid in one year sorry Bernights and both have 11 month time to do other things
 
rc75

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My buddy bought a 100k mill and charges $950 per bar. He averages 15 bars a month or more.
So 15x950 = $14,250 x12 = $ 171,000. Makes more sense to do it in house if you have the clientele.
 
brayks

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OK, so I have to chime in here…

As much of the financial issues re: ROI have pretty much been addressed, I feel that I must address the machine issues, quality, motivation etc. brought up by bernigts.

Firstly, the approximate total cost for our solution is in the $125-$150K price range. This includes, machine, CAD & CAM software (all required modules),starter tooling and material package, training, installation and shipping. Training is 7 days at our facility with a follow up day of on-site to aid in implementation.

The idea that one has to spend $500K on an effective solution for dental bar manufacturing is a pretty common misconception, often promoted by pundits, labs and/or general or specialty milling centers who’s primary motivation may include preserving a revenue stream.

Spindle going down? 1-2 weeks to replace? Maybe on a Makino, Roeders or DMG Mori where the replacement costs could run up to as much as $30K but not on a versamill. Should a spindle go down (we have yet to have this happen),it can be replaced in a few days. New spindle cost: $8,500, refurbished: $5,500. Need one sooner, their price point allows the purchase of a spare.

Time to machine a “typical” bar (if there is such a thing) is less than 2 hours. Does one really need a bar in 48 hours? Well, quite possibly yes and it is not for us to cast judgement on the requirements of our customers looking to establish, maintain or grow their business and value proposition.

Quality. When bernigts says “now way, not on that machine”. I take offense. Sorry, but he clearly has no idea of the robustness of our machine, software templates and service that enable our many customers to reliably produce very high quality bars, quickly with excellent fits and a completeness of machining that eliminates much post-machining hand-work- day after day, week after week, month after month…

Sure there are machines in our price range (and higher) that are not up to the task but the versamill is not one that fits into that category. A quick visit to our website will enable one to gain an understanding on just why. Our versamill (“THAT machine”) is certainly anything BUT a toy.

Motivation. How about having complete control over your product and name/reputation. How about eliminating do-overs or associated manual modifications resulting from a bar that is delivered to you and acts like a rocking horse on the model or does not seat properly.

Profit. Clearly there is much profit to be had and if you can have fun doing it? why the heck not?

Some simple examples...
 

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Glenn Kennedy

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Steve, did you have a chance to head over to IMTS this week to check out all the toys?
 
brayks

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Steve, did you have a chance to head over to IMTS this week to check out all the toys?
Hey Glenn,
Unfortunately not this year but I had 4 of my top guys there for the entirety of the show. I will however likely attend the rapidly approaching EMO show in Hanover.

Of course I will be getting a report from my guys and am looking forward to hearing it.

Best
Steve
 
TheLabGuy

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Hate to be a downer...oh what the heck, the original poster probably already cried a few times realizing he didn't get the mill he said he was getting. However, here's my downer...with these new high performance polymers, almost all mills can mill that stuff and as for bars, it's soooooo much better than having the zirconium fractures or porcelain fractures on the metal. I know, I know, there will always be need to for a metal or zirconium bar, send that out then and make your own bars using the polymers. Our Roland makes some pretty bad@ss polymer bars.
 
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