Initial Crown Proposals

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charles007

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Better Placement ... I've wondered about that since day one using a scanner...
Why hasn't someone attempted to have the user place dots, as one example, on the opposing tooth to use as a guide for the occlusion to help with a much improved proposals...
I'm sure the Cad software could be improved with more ideas from old school lab techs :D
 
JohnWilson

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Certain libraries are worse than others. The prepackage ones in 3shape seem to initiate closer than 3rd party imports so its obvious its where the markers are set for M/D/B/L.

I preferred the old marking the marginal ridges and then auto place back in the day, almost any library would be placed rather well.
 
Sevan P

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How do you edit the library ?

I can only tell that to 3shape users.......................:D

You can edit the placement of the units in the arch and the you can also edit morph points on the crowns indiviually. Why exo can't do that?
 
Sevan P

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Im not asking anything about anatomy. Just off axis global position, regardless of the library selection.

How far off is it? You make it sound like 2012 3shape where placement really sucked. Take a pic.
 

Fogember

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Hi User, I, like you, wish 3Shape had a real crown proposal like some of the other ones out there. In my limited time in designing full crowns I found the best options for me is to:

In SmIle Composer, go to the Choosing SmIle Library option, click on the box to the left of Custom and drag that window off to the side of the design image (teeth your working on),and go through the library till you see one that you like, hit apply and see how it looks in general. The margins and position will be off, but just get the idea of anotomy and shape. Keep doing that until you find one you like, then hit OK. What I'm still doing is finding my favorites and writing them down, as later I'll move those up in the "proposal" order of Control Panel.

Then, while still in SmIle Composer, tick the Auto Placement button, and it should take care of ~85% of it's position according to the other teeth and setting your margins. Sometimes it comes out really good.
Then do more of your SmIle Composer tweaks with the Design Tools and go from there.

Then later on, I'm going into Control Panel/Anatomy & Pontic Library, and moving my favorites to the top of the list by either highlighting it, then using the up arrow on the keyboard, or the move up option below the library box. Maybe do your first 2-3 favorites for molars, then anteriors etc, just to make it easier for when you go into design (now using the drop down arrow in smile library choosing
and clicking on the one you want to use),then do Auto-placement and be where you want to be much quicker, 2 ticks and we have a good "proposal" to start with.

Hope this helps in some way, as it helped make 3Shape funner for me.
Thanks!! I have been trying, for a long time, to figure out how to move my favorite library to the first choice. My reseller didn't know how. I just suffered through. Seems like I learn something helpful here over and over. It is amazing what makes me happy these days.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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You're welcome. I'm glad it was helpful :)

I feel the same way about this forum, sometimes even more helpful than our re-sellers. Real lab techs with real world daily experience.
 
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Smithwick0208

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I'm assuming everyone is talking about these weird proposals. I can pull up every library and the teeth are setup like this. Margins are correct and the annotations are correct.

3shape proposal.JPG
 

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WDL-Cali-Cad-Man

WDL-Cali-Cad-Man

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3shape software cant mimic nature yet LOL . On the real i remember the old inlab days that if you set up your path of insertion just right, 4 out 5 design proposals were really close.
 
Smithwick0208

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I had support tell me that what I saw as a bad proposal, wasn't that bad. Apparently their standards aren't as high as ours.
 
Mike2

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I, like the above wondered why the software cannot place the tooth in the box defined? I mark margin=bottom,then mes/dis contacts=edges and between the line down the adjacent teeth, for buccal and lingual? I have exocad but worked first with Dental Wings and I am completely over this crown proposal as it's not even 5 seconds with hot keys to size/move/change to what I need before freeforming. Anyhow, put a number to it, if it means the difference between doing 5 designs per hour vs 25...then i worry about it. As it is, I am very comfortable with my Preciso/Exocad allowing me to Complete cases from entry to ready for production in about 8mins per single unit Zr. My 2cents
 
CoolHandLuke

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I'm assuming everyone is talking about these weird proposals. I can pull up every library and the teeth are setup like this. Margins are correct and the annotations are correct.

View attachment 23607


and that's never going to change. not even for single units.

the reason for this is because of the disconnect between translating size and angulation of anatomy libraries from case to case. in the scan-it-library there needs to be demarcations for actual anatomy, like long axis, facial 3rds, marginal ridges, margin line, etc.

since none of that is defined on the anatomy library and none of it is 'identified' on the neighboring anatomy, it will never be correct.

but in blender.... it would be quite possible to design a tooth merely by demarcating neighboring anatomy, the margin line, the incisal edge, and using a macro.

but that would only be good for a single tooth or two. not a whole smile. for that we'll need some more cooking up of preposterous ideas...

hey @patmo141 lets have a little talk...
 
ps2thtec

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Thanks, you guys just jinxed me

image.jpeg
 
Smithwick0208

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and that's never going to change. not even for single units.

the reason for this is because of the disconnect between translating size and angulation of anatomy libraries from case to case. in the scan-it-library there needs to be demarcations for actual anatomy, like long axis, facial 3rds, marginal ridges, margin line, etc.

since none of that is defined on the anatomy library and none of it is 'identified' on the neighboring anatomy, it will never be correct.

but in blender.... it would be quite possible to design a tooth merely by demarcating neighboring anatomy, the margin line, the incisal edge, and using a macro.

but that would only be good for a single tooth or two. not a whole smile. for that we'll need some more cooking up of preposterous ideas...

hey @patmo141 lets have a little talk...

I get what you're saying. Having to scale and reposition all together isn't that bad, but I don't know why #10 would be rotated, when the library isn't like that.
 
CoolHandLuke

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easily explained. software knows where you identified 10, in the scan software. so thats the anchorpoint for this anatomy. it also knows when it brings all the teeth in, that it needs to keep arch form. to that end, it rotated and scaled the teeth to keep the right arch form according to where you placed your points in the scan software.

so where should you place the points? great question, glad you asked. you actually should change the anchor point in the scanitlibrary tool, to be underneath the buccal edge instead of overtop of the facial or center of the intaglio. then when you place your point in the scan software identifying the tooth by number, remember thats where your anchorpoint is going to begin translating the size of the anatomy to follow.
 
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