Implant Supported Bridge

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

got your attention? good, now I'll shut up for a while..

Nice contours.....however, can't see enough in the image for a complete evaluation.

Your arrogance is deafening. You strike me as one who tries to look good by making others look less.

Good Luck !!

 

[lcmlabforum]

For what it is worth, having dissent in the forum is always good.
The terminology and tone might cause some heart burn, but I
like to think that someone giving me constructive criticism wish
to help me improve and I try to give benefit of the doubt.
As for cuspid rise, I see many situations where a group function
is a much safer approach than a cuspid rise. I do not believe
there is scientific evidence that Cuspid rise on a full arch implant
supported fixed dental prostheses is more advantageous than
group function, or for that matter, than balanced occlusion. We
also do not know if the mandible is an overdenture, maybe I missed
that part . . .
Just my 2 cents' worth.
LCM

 

[TheLabGuy]

got your attention? good, now I'll shut up for a while..

How is anyone suppose to comment on something like that? Seriously, you want judged off one picture, well let me see...shall I stand on my head to judge this since it's upside down. For as much trash talk you've stated about layered zirconia...what's the first case you attempt to post? All that hype about how your better than this than and that because you studied under a Master and the first thing you throw to us is that...really? Really? Okay, I give up, your in self destruct mode, I'll stand clear and listen for the explosion.

 

[TheLabGuy]

For what it is worth, having dissent in the forum is always good.
The terminology and tone might cause some heart burn, but I
like to think that someone giving me constructive criticism wish
to help me improve and I try to give benefit of the doubt.
As for cuspid rise, I see many situations where a group function
is a much safer approach than a cuspid rise. I do not believe
there is scientific evidence that Cuspid rise on a full arch implant
supported fixed dental prostheses is more advantageous than
group function, or for that matter, than balanced occlusion. We
also do not know if the mandible is an overdenture, maybe I missed
that part . . .
Just my 2 cents' worth.
LCM

What are your thoughts about lingualized occlusion?

 

[disturbed]

How is anyone suppose to comment on something like that? Seriously, you want judged off one picture, well let me see...shall I stand on my head to judge this since it's upside down. For as much trash talk you've stated about layered zirconia...what's the first case you attempt to post? All that hype about how your better than this than and that because you studied under a Master and the first thing you throw to us is that...really? Really? Okay, I give up, your in self destruct mode, I'll stand clear and listen for the explosion.

had a bout with a production lab (6.5 months),thought I should at least try it once after being showed only the high end of our field.. those were made there more than a year ago, I do not like shofu, very opaque dentins and VERY translucent incisals.. I was not the boss, and the boss was a moron..thought it was a good thing to show as I talked soo much crap about Zr.. I just wanted to let you all know I am not above anyone, I am just trying to share what I know and get some feedback, critique is the best feedback we learn nothing from gentle pats on the back.

 

[disturbed]

Nice contours.....however, can't see enough in the image for a complete evaluation.

Your arrogance is deafening. You strike me as one who tries to look good by making others look less.

Good Luck !!

I have posted the crowns I made today for your critique. see my thread "a day in the life"

 

[disturbed]

For what it is worth, having dissent in the forum is always good.
The terminology and tone might cause some heart burn, but I
like to think that someone giving me constructive criticism wish
to help me improve and I try to give benefit of the doubt.
As for cuspid rise, I see many situations where a group function
is a much safer approach than a cuspid rise. I do not believe
there is scientific evidence that Cuspid rise on a full arch implant
supported fixed dental prostheses is more advantageous than
group function, or for that matter, than balanced occlusion. We
also do not know if the mandible is an overdenture, maybe I missed
that part . . .
Just my 2 cents' worth.
LCM

If the jaw is not seated in the condyl then bone crushing forces are applied to the posteriors and without cuspid rise on framework like this the posteriors will chip to high hell. Not sure if there was even support for the cuspids but better to chip and repair one tooth than all the posteriors.. right?

research Dawson...There IS scientific evidence to support cuspid rise is better vs. group function, Especially when malocclusion is present. i.e.. the HUGE wear facets on the molar tells us that the condyl is NOT seated, and that there are interferences. we should make every attempt to stabilize an unstable mouth, because sometimes you simply forget to put in your night guard...

 

[rkm rdt]

You can't see the group function here?

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

If the jaw is not seated in the condyl then bone crushing forces are applied to the posteriors and without cuspid rise on framework like this the posteriors will chip to high hell. Not sure if there was even support for the cuspids but better to chip and repair one tooth than all the posteriors.. right?

research Dawson...There IS scientific evidence to support cuspid rise is better vs. group function, Especially when malocclusion is present. i.e.. the HUGE wear facets on the molar tells us that the condyl is NOT seated, and that there are interferences. we should make every attempt to stabilize an unstable mouth, because sometimes you simply forget to put in your night guard...

Buddy........you don't even know your anatomy !!! the condyle IS part of the mandible (jaw). Your talkin about the condyle seating into the Glenoid Fossa. Which however, if the occlusion compresses the jaw joint (containing the disc) when seated completely, you have a compressed jaw joint, causing inflammation and TMJ pain.


Quit swingin your meat in the locker room ........

 

[dmonwaxa]

I've somewhat taken a back seat with this thread. Instead of making a knee jerk reaction and allowing myself to fall in and explore what has presented itself as a chasm of ignorance; I will reserve my comments for later. So far you guys are doing such a great job I needn't say a thing. I'll just sit back and enjoy. Theres a saying .....give a person enough rope ..... you guys can finish the rest.

 

[paulg100]

Yep was funny but getting bored now, especially after the image of the case posted.

After all the bravado i was expected something along the lines of what Magne and Brix turn out and he posts that! very average.

If your work was so great dissposed, then youd have nothing to shout about, it would speak for its self.

Move along.

 

[disturbed]

Buddy........you don't even know your anatomy !!! the condyle IS part of the mandible (jaw). Your talkin about the condyle seating into the Glenoid Fossa. Which however, if the occlusion compresses the jaw joint (containing the disc) when seated completely, you have a compressed jaw joint, causing inflammation and TMJ pain.


Quit swingin your meat in the locker room ........

yea.. wrote that at 3 am. after making my thread. was tired, ment to say when the condyle is seated. occlusion compresses the jaw joint? what?? that disc prevents pain and lubricates the condyle, if you take a sonogram and see that the disc is displaced or gone than yes, keep the condyle on the eminence, but when the condyle is seated properly there are no muscle groups that can compress the joint to the point of TMD. occlusion compresses the jaw joint?? can you explain that? the condyle should be at the top of the fossa in the anterior most position where the bone is naturally buttressed, are you talking about the old method where people used to push back on the chin and say that was CR? so maybe you are saying if the anteriors are locked in pushing the jaw back causing pain? I was taught a LITTLE anterior freeway space is always a good thing anyways. I may still have some of my words mixed, I am pulling this from Dawson function classes I took years ago, I need to brush up but I am focusing on implants ATM. I may not talk the talk but I know how the jaw and muscles relate to occlusion and I believe in deprogramming and equilibration on large cases such as this, especially when there are only 2 teeth that the doc would have to equilibrate. If the jaw is stable there is NO reason for a nightguard, right?

 

[lcmlabforum]

There are varying degrees of 'scientific' validity to publications, like randomized
clinical trial, versus case series, and 'observational studies'. Even in the best of the
best conducted by medical research giants, you can get numbers to show only what
you want. There is a saying: 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'.
While there are many good reasons to do somethings, there are also lots of
'gurus's who can present very convincing lectures to support one theory
or another, the human body presents with such myriad variety of
confounding variables it is practically impossible to run a tight experiment
for anyone to say one type of occlusion can cause one problem or solve
another problem. There are Cochran reviews that found some factors,
but even those would, the last time I check, not call it anything more
than an 'association'.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Bob, I think Lingualized is a good concept and when executed well,
can be great simplifier in real life clinical practice.
!
LCM

 

[dmonwaxa]

There are varying degrees of 'scientific' validity to publications, like randomized
clinical trial, versus case series, and 'observational studies'. Even in the best of the
best conducted by medical research giants, you can get numbers to show only what
you want. There is a saying: 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'.
While there are many good reasons to do somethings, there are also lots of
'gurus's who can present very convincing lectures to support one theory
or another, the human body presents with such myriad variety of
confounding variables it is practically impossible to run a tight experiment
for anyone to say one type of occlusion can cause one problem or solve
another problem. There are Cochran reviews that found some factors,
but even those would, the last time I check, not call it anything more
than an 'association'.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Bob, I think Lingualized is a good concept and when executed well,
can be great simplifier in real life clinical practice.
!
LCM

LCM, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[paulg100]

For the sake of disposed:

"@ paul, teeth ARE complicated NOT monochromatic"



Well whats this, a natural tooth (12) with no visible mamelons and no complexity. see em all the time.

Am i gonna chuck a load of mamelons and colours into the centrals, errr nope.

Most important thing is to replicate the translucency, value and neck chroma. Not chuck a load of complex effects into the crowns and veneers that dont exist in the natural dentition.

 

[lcmlabforum]

Thanks, dmonwaxa, but now that you agree with me, I should be
contrary and say that you are wrong! Just joking, but I appreciate
the input. In this day and age, it is nice to know that you are
not fighting a lonely struggle against bigots who follow the
'philosophy' of the day or insist that there is only one way to
manage every patient in the clinic. It is getting tougher to
do things by your conscience, so this forum helps many of us,
at least myself, to feel not so isolated.
!
LCM
(I need to get that 'paypal' thing going to do that donation, sorry
have not done it yet).