Imes Icore 240i

[Alex R.]

Bob, 5th axis will be able as an upgrade to 240i as I now, am I have the wrong info?

 

[Drizzt]

I don't want to put a dark cloud on the thread. But, as an Imes distributor, I am wondering why you guys are buying into a 4 axis mills. Are you aware that not having a fifth axis will result in the following limitations:
Some bridges will require much thicker pucks due to path of insertion.
Thicker pucks leads to longer mill time, shorter life span of tolls and increased cost for materials.
Total inability to mill some bridges due to angle needed to mill in four axis.
unable to mill any bridge with a path of insertion problem or undercut.
You will not be able to mill any screw retained bridgework.
Imes is coming out with the 250i 5 axis shortly. I think this is a much better choice when compared to the 240i.
Just an FYI, at CAP we now have 10 mills and have our next one on order. Out of all these mills only one (Lava) is a four axis. This is also the oldest mill we currently have. I never say never about anything. But, I really don't see four axis as a viable solution for dental.
Why limit yourself???

I also agree with that . Why spend a significant amount of money and purchase a 4 axis machine , while you can have for a small fee the fith axis ? I use my 5th axis every day and loving it !

I think in 2-3 years , there will not be any 4 axis machines produced .
Vhf , which is maybe the most popular dry CNC machine , used by numerous companies had their 5 axis machine at the IDS , which looked perfect . Impression Dental | milling machines for dental technology | vhf camfacture AG

Imes is also releasing 250i , Roland is 5 axis and we all know how popular it is . Honestly , I saw almost no 4 axis machines at the IDS .

 

[BobCDT]

Bob, 5th axis will be able as an upgrade to 240i as I now, am I have the wrong info?

We (CAP) are an Imes distributor. We have no info regarding a future upgrade of the 240 to 5 axis. We spent much time with the people from Imes at IDS and it never was mentioned.
In addition, to upgrade the 240 to a five axis after the fact is no small undertaking.

 

[charles007]

Bob, 5th axis will be able as an upgrade to 240i as I now, am I have the wrong info?

I asked that question last year directly to imes., no upgrade 5 axis planned for the 240 or 340 , the 250 is in the works..

 

[BobCDT]

I asked that question last year directly to imes., no upgrade 5 axis planned for the 240 or 340 , the 250 is in the works..

That is my understanding.

 

[Labwa]

Same here guys. We are the Imes distrubutor in Australia/New Zealand...We have heard nothing of an upgrade for the 240i. I dont think they would have developed the new 250i if they could have just converted the 240i into a 250i.

 

[ccyangs.2008]

Hi Bob, this is Alex from Taiwan. imes icore 450i is very expensive here and I am difficult to afford it. Shall I have a chance to get the quotation from you ?

 

[Alex R.]

I've just returned from Moscow Dental Salon, 250 is not available till summer and isn't so powerful as 240:withstupid:

 

[Sydceramist]

Well whats the verdict end of all this 4/5 axis talk?

 

[BobCDT]

And the verdict is, Absolutely no reason to limit yourself to 4 axis. Owning only one mill and having it 4 axis is like having a car with no reverse. Your going to get stuck and not be able to do cases that you had planned on doing. In addition, many of these cases you will not realize you can't mill until you get to the CAM stage. Very often wasting scan and design time.

 

[RockyMark]

Even I have Imes Icore 340i in my dental laboratory. It's works really well, is very compact and also saves space, as well. I really enjoy working on it and its multi-purpose usability. It has 4-axis processing and additional wet processing option which further allows to mill glass ceramic and lithium-disilicate blocks, in addition to aluminium oxide, zirconium oxide, waxes and resins.

 

[charles007]

RockyMark, how many minutes to mill zir and emax in full contour on your 340i ? are you pleased with the margins on your 340with emax cad ? Are you seeing much difference in pressed emax if you do both ?

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

Well after about a year and a half of milling with our 240i there has been only 1 case we needed a 5 axis for, We just sent it out. Our 240i has served us incredibly well! When the need arises for another mill, we will definitely get a 5 axis(Imes 450i). But I couldn't be happier with it! Definitely gonna need another sintering furnace at this rate!

 

[Alex R.]

Well after about a year and a half of milling with our 240i there has been only 1 case we needed a 5 axis for, We just sent it out. Our 240i has served us incredibly well! When the need arises for another mill, we will definitely get a 5 axis(Imes 450i). But I couldn't be happier with it! Definitely gonna need another sintering furnace at this rate!

We have 450I now and second oven, additionally to 240i which works fine and brings money.

 

[charles007]

Aaron, thanks for sharing your update on your 240i. Rather shocking to learn your haven't needed the 5th axis except on 1 case in 1.5 years... Guess I was wrong and 4 axis milling will be around for years to come.
Please share the learning curve of milling inhouse.. Any repairs on the mill, replaced parts ? I'm assuming your getting better fits and less adjusting ,, at least I've heard that from other small labs..

 

[AGV]

We have 450I now and second oven, additionally to 240i which works fine and brings money.

Alex,
Milling long span implant bridges CoCr Accuracy?.

 

[Toast]

We've been milling with the 240i for a little over a month now and couldn't be happier. Milled about 200 Zr and 100 wax units with it so far with no issues. This mill has been making money since day one and will continue for a long time. The CAM will suggest using a 5axis mill on bridges sometimes but it always mills it just fine. Our next mill will definitely be a 5 axis, keeping our options open as far as which one for now, but the 240i will always be a workhorse for us regardless what our next mill might be.

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

Slight learning curve, but definitely not as difficult as it first seems! Minimal weekly maintenance, usually change out the tools once a month, unless we break one. Once we were properly set up everything flowed nicely! Our biggest mistake was not having a large enough air compressor, but we fixed that and it runs like a champ! Our fits are right on the money every time! We are really quite happy with everything! There's the occasional headache that any piece of equipment offers, but very minimal issues!

 

[EGE]

Some advantages of a 4 axis mill: because there is only one rotation axis, the overall kinematics of the machine is stronger > higher accuracy, less potential technical problems.
A 5 axis mill will allow you to use thinner blocs for long span bridges and avoid undercuts when you have different insert axis. If you mill these freqently, then buy a 5 axis, otherwise 4 axis is enough.

 

[brayks]

I have to agree with J&B and EGE.

I think it also depends on your business. I see Milling Centers having a greater need than most lab’s for 5-axis mills due to a wider variety of cases they encounter and even then (bar and abutments aside) many of our customers do not utilize 5-axis for much of their work.

I comes down to analyzing each individual’s current business and future goals and objectives and making a decision of how much of their hard earned cash they have or want to invest back into it at a given time.

Such analysis might include:

• Number of cases a day/week/month/year requiring the use of thicker stock.
• Number of cases a day/week/month/year with bridges that must be milled 5-axis due to angles, undercuts or insertion problems.
• Although not necessarily an i(4-axis vs 5-axis),number of screw-retained bridgework cases.

Evaluation of initial investment and cost of ownership in purchasing a more expensive 5-Axis machine vs outsourcing costs for many labs (and even milling centers) could make the purchase decision for a 4-axis machine a fairly easy and wise one.

Remember not all 5-axis machines are created equal. Although some of relative importance, 5-axis issues to consider:

• Slower toolpath calculation time
• Longer milling times
• Potentially less accurate
• Increased stock utilization/consumption
• More complexity with additional moving parts, mechanics/electronics that can fail, require calibration, etc.
• Axes rotation angles. If angles of rotation are limited many of the cases mentioned are still not possible utilizing 5-axis operation.
• Of course CAM software capabilities and the 5-axis programming techniques that are available or supported for a machine (i.e. tool axis control through lead/lag, point/line/curve; machine strategies supported, support of 4-axis operation (to minimize waste) when 5-axis is not required.)

These issues are precisely the reason we have introduced our VersaMILL 4X (Debut at LabDay Chicago 2014). Through the above analysis and consideration, we see the need for labs and milling centers to invest in both types of machines.

I would be curious to hear from milling centers or labs that do have multiple machines to know how many of their different machines are 5-axis machines and what percentage of the time they are running full 5-axis simultaneous motion.

Just my two (maybe five) cents. YMMV…