I'm meeting with Lee Culp....

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Clear Precision Dental

Clear Precision Dental

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Lee is coming out to Colorado (to do a little skiing),and I am going to dinner with him this coming Sunday, then I will spend the day with him on Monday.

Anyone have any questions for me to ask him about the latest in CAD/CAM technology?

Or anything in general?

I would love to ask him some tough questions...
 
TheLabGuy

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That's awesome.........
I have had a few of my techs go to him for cad/cam in the past. He's a great teacher/lecturer, tons of knowledge.

If I had the chance to speak to him, I'd ask him his thoughts about cerec connect and small labs using milling centers for the cerec connect. In addition, I would want to discuss with him his thoughts and how soon does he see full mouth models being manufactured from .stl files (doctor's cameras).
 
Al.

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Do you think it will turn into a sales pitch for e4d?

Who's paying for dinner?
 
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charles007

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I talked with Lee twice in the past 2 years about the e4d.........He said it will do all that the inlab will do..........Now that we know that inlab is not the best miller for milling everyday preps us average guys receive in the lab, is the e4d really better than the inlab or just a slight upgrade ?
These are a few questions for a 2 man lab..........

1.Will it mill feather edge margins and not so ideal preps?........
2. With the cost of zirconia coping and wax patterns getting lower all the time, why buy the e4d that uses expensive blocks. Will the e4d mill disks which are much cheaper per unit over blocks........
3. When is it better to buy a scanner only, such as the 3shape over buying the e4d or any other cad/cam system? with technology improving soo fast !
4. What new updates are coming in the next year or 2 with the age of the digital lab with the cad/cam systems that are on the market now..........I keep hearing about new materials.
5. Can you design a single full contoured #8, or 8 and 9 on a computer as good, if not better than hand waxing for emax....is the software to that level yet "IF" you have a lab tech with years of experience at the mouse ?
 
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Clear Precision Dental

Clear Precision Dental

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Thanks, so much for all the ideas and questions. I will ask him every single one! I've got 'til Sunday, so keep 'em coming!

I've had two opportunities to play around with the E4D. Seems like it was D4D until big Hank (Henry Schein) got his hands on it. My last time with the machine was about a month ago. The milling machine is heavier (like 270lbs compared to 90lbs of Cerec) but it seems more stable and has more future potential designed in. One of the guys I talked to said it was set up to mill titanium (ie custom abutments, etc). It would be so handy to slap stuff in, play on a computer and see the result so quickly. 3 houses down from me is Colorado's top seller of Cerec machines. He is always twisting my arm to buy the InLab system. So, I keep sitting on the fence not buying anything.

Al, chances are real high that I'm paying for dinner! If you came out here, I would buy yours too!
 
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Wyolab

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I worked in an office running a CEREC before going to lab school. Even though the machines have limitations, the doctors I worked for did very few full crowns with it, they are amazing. I noticed that seeing a prep magnified 50x, and having the machine tell them that the clearance on the prep was not adequate really improved them as dentists. Now I am purchasing an in house lab from the same doctors to do outside work. I see this technology as a benefit to the lab owner, but what kind of gross income should a lab have before they step into a system? E4D or Cerec, I was told you should be able to pay off and profit on your system in under five years to make it work. Technology changes so fast that a system could be outdated in more time then that. What is the difference in expendables and milling fees for the two systems? Anyhow I am starting to ramble, but I would like to know more.
 
Wyolab

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Oh yeah, where do you ski down there? My parents worked at Copper Mountain when I was a kid.
 
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charles007

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Wyolab.......may want to rethink inlab .......do a lot research.
Sure docs with Cerecs in their office improve their preps.....How about the docs that don't have a cerec..........will the inlab live up to your expectations on the less than ideal preps you will see ? I was told on good authority early last year that Serona does major upgrades about every 5-6 years .
Serona just upgraded the inlab scanner .......when will they upgrade the miller ?

Just saying !
 
Clear Precision Dental

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On my way to dinner....

On my way to dinner...maybe 5 of us. I'll have answers tonight, and post them. Then I'll hang out with Lee tomorrow (and I could ask more...). Thanks for the great questions! You guys are the best !!!
 
JohnWilson

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Looking forward to read what was discussed.
 
Al.

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He's still at the resturant washing dishes trying to pay off the bill.
 
Clear Precision Dental

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Sorry for the delay. I had a great time talking with Lee! And I talked to him about this site. He seemed interested.

He was not selling or pushing E4D. It ended up being my questioning where he would talk about E4D/D4D.

I simply had a blast. We talked about our kids (he has 3),how we got started doing this "lab-thang" and other personal events that I will not disclose in a forum. He is a great guy.
I started using the Phonares teeth by Ivoclar. I got insight into how he sculpted them and the timing (the all too often, labtech under the gun hours that we often fall into to "git-er-done"). He also sculpted the BlueLine Teeth. I was candid about molds that I disliked (P-moulds "lifted" from Dentsply). He told me he wanted to call the new line Kobalt (an extension of the 'blue' name) instead of Phonares, but it didn't happen.
He showed me some different ways of looking at mandibular incisors and the distal flare of the mandibular laterals. We discussed a lot of areas where I could improve and I was encouraged.
We then talked about scanning and CAD/CAM and digital dentistry. He told me about the inefficiencies of doing everything by hand. It is artistic and creative but takes so much time. 2 techs with one front office staff (tracking incoming/outgoing and billing) could easily do 20+ crowns per day and generate some serious cash.
In reality, the milling machines are expensive and milling centers will be on the rise. The giant 4 labs (ie. Glidewell) currently only have 8% of the entire lab market. The small lab is not going away, but working more together to increase productivity and share costs may be a bright area in our futures.
Lee told me what he liked about the D4D system is that it will allow you to design multiple crowns AT THE SAME TIME, whereas the Cerec forces you to do one, lock it down and move to the next.
Bad preps are bad preps. Just as with Ceramo-metal crowns, ideal preps increase opportunities for idea crowns and the CAD/CAM is no different. The D4D can handle no-prep veneers, and feather margins, but deviations from idea can increase need for compromise. Tissue management is critical. If a doc cannot pack cord, use expanding material (ie Expasil sp?) or laser the tissue, then they should not get into this form of dentistry.
Full mouth scans off models are already here. The intraoral scanning of the entire mouth takes time but can be done. The current tweaking is combining i-CAT scans with intraoral scans to create the virtual patient for implant diagnosis, planning, placement and fabrication. This can already be done, it just needs to be refined and "simplified" if possible.

I was wrong about the machine milling titanium, or at least being set up to do this. Lee told me that titanium is a challenge to mill at the precision and shapes required for implant parts and would require a 5-axis machine which would greatly increase costs. I apologize if I promoted any mis-information.

I could go on and on, but I need to go "pay some bills."

It was good to see Lee again, and a joy to spend time with him personally, one-on-one. He was gracious with every one of my questions (even on the trip to the airport). He invited me down to Dallas to take a look at things he has going on. I plan to look for some time in the near future. I look forward to seeking every oportunity to raise my personal bar.

Of course, (our own) Al does this for me, as well. I'd be happy to wash a bunch of dishes to hang out with Al.:D
 
TheLabGuy

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Just contact Al's wife, she's the real pants in that operation......hehehe
Love ya long time Al.....:)
 
JohnWilson

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Nice post!

I have always been an admirer of Lee's. He wouldn't remember me even though we shook hands a couple of times.

I like anyone that makes a difference in our industry and his track record certainly proves hes done that.
 
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onesourcedental

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Dinner with Lee

Hey that was a nice post, when has Lee ever paid for dinner? You can tell Grimes said so...lol! Hey on the milling if TI, actually it is much easier to mill than NP. But none of the bench top units will be able to mill any alloy. I have four milling machines at my facility and I have used the Cerec and E4D, I even went to a hands on when Lee was there, I was impressed with the software but not so much the mill.

I think I may tap Lee for at least the starter entre next time!

DG
 

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