How much volume..

Would you ever or do you offer e.max crowns for $85 or less without outsourcing?

  • Yes, if the volume is over 50 units per month

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, if volume is over 100 units per month.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    46
JKraver

JKraver

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Deliver on time crowns that fit and look good. Drs will pay your fee. If they wont pay your fee you don't want that account. Cheap and bad generally go hand in hand. Bring the Dr. a gift card or doughnuts for employees if you feel they need to feel special. Making the staff happy makes the dentists job easier and you get more cases.
 
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GAP

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at 85 dollars for the emax and working on the 1/3 cost 1/3 profit 1/3 tax rule does this mean the dr will only charge $255 to the patient in total.l really doubt it ,what are they total numpties?

the overhead for a dental office is the highest of any profession, the 1/3 rule there doesn't apply. it's like 50-60% overhead. so if the dr would charge 255, he'd look for a lab that charge $25/unit. most dental business coaches tell their practices to keep the lab bill at 10-15% of the office fee.
 
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AL1

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Tried to market emax presses $125 monolithic $135 multi ingot.
No takers so selling the ep 3010 and slowly retiring, accounts are retiring , not trying to replace them.
$85 is what some of my friends are up against.
So sad.
 
Car 54

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Unfortunate to hear that, AL1....and so it begins, or at least continues :(
 
JKraver

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Thanks for replies everyone.. This obviously was a baited question.. I was asked by the new owner of a Dr I work for to match a price from another lab an hour away.. I must have seemed pretty rude when I laughed at her when she suggested $85 for an emax crown.. but I couldnt help it.. I have never heard of prices like that from a small lab.. The volume is probably around 100 units a month maybe, not sure. Its just crazy, Im certainly sticking to my prices which are around the $200 range. Im sure I will still get custom work from local pts .. but yeah.. there are lots of bottom feeders out there.. is it really that bad?

You should look the Dr. in the face and say have you ever driven past a barber shop and see a sign that says we fix 5 dollar haircuts.... Its kind of like that. I fix 85 dollar crowns.
 
CatamountRob

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36 votes and not a single "yes"? Somebody must be doing $85 e.max crowns?
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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How about $85 Remax crowns ? That's how they can do it.

Time to ask your accounts if the competition is using 1st press ingots if they ask you to price match.
 
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AL1

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I think I am getting out at the right time.
Small labs seem to be disappearing as we age and retire, cheap labs
will probably be the norm with the use of intraoral scanners
no more impressions, file will go to a central mill and that looks like the future.
 
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grantoz

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Gap i will disagree with you about dr's costs being so high so the 1/3 doesnt apply i know dentist that get their crowns directly from china for $15-$20 and they still charge $1500 or more no mater which way you look at it they screw us down hard then charge the patient too much and then complain how expensive everything is .In their eyes they are the only ones aloud to make a buck because they deserve it ,I even heard one dentist at a meeting say after all they are the elite not one dentist in a room of 30 disagreed with him.
 
Affinity

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AL1 .. Cadcam has been alive and well for over a decade.. If you didnt see any of this coming then you were probably just ignoring it waiting to say what you just said.

Im a small 1 man lab and Im only optimistic about the future, and business is booming. 2 scanners and a mill that are almost paid for.

Dentists are like babies, they only know what you teach them. Make yourself valuable
 
GAP

GAP

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Gap i will disagree with you about dr's costs being so high so the 1/3 doesnt apply i know dentist that get their crowns directly from china for $15-$20 and they still charge $1500 or more no mater which way you look at it they screw us down hard then charge the patient too much and then complain how expensive everything is .In their eyes they are the only ones aloud to make a buck because they deserve it ,I even heard one dentist at a meeting say after all they are the elite not one dentist in a room of 30 disagreed with him.

a dr might charge $1500 but if hes participating with say, United Concordia, he only gets $500-600 for a cr insert. So what percentage of pt actually pay full fee?--who knows? and no joke, i saw a $12 check from the insurance paid the dr for an extraction. How many dr are there that don't participate with any insurance? I bet not many, and dr's get squeezed by them. Trust me, the 1/3 rule doesn't apply to dentists and their overhead. the risk in a dental practice is high as well, HIPPA is a huge PIA and there steps for compliance are intricate. this all effects their costs to do business.

When drs send to china even when they're being paid full fee is disgraceful, IMO if the pt is paying more, they should get more. but my point is maybe their not always getting paid for their work.

A lot of dr's will have egos the size of mt everest and think they're elite. I won't disagree with you, but I don't want to comment on the mentality, i just wanted to add that there is a financial element in there too.
 
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Ron.Ferland

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Had a conversation with Wieland/Ivoclar rep yesterday. Was talking to to him about the Hybrid Select. I asked what the true cost of milling eMax (Cost of machine, materials, tooling and labor) was and he stated $55-60 depending upon your labor rates. Even going model-free that's way above a 50% Cost-of-Goods-Sold using an implied fee of $85.

My advice? Let them do it. They will either go out of business or suffer an early death...
Interesting figures.... I pay $19 for a block of C14, roughly $4.00 for burs, equipment costs $4.00 per unit (total cost @ 36 months at 4.99% at 25 units a day/21 days per month) plus labor, which is roughly $5 for scan/design, $1 for mill operation, a few bucks for contour/stain/glaze. Plus, less skilled labor required to produce a unit faster than conventional. There is also a significant value to having 15 units milled e.max units overnight while the lights are out. I would reconsider these figures and the intangible value of automation.
 
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grantoz

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so Ron what would charge then?
 
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RJS8669

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Interesting figures.... I pay $19 for a block of C14, roughly $4.00 for burs, equipment costs $4.00 per unit (total cost @ 36 months at 4.99% at 25 units a day/21 days per month) plus labor, which is roughly $5 for scan/design, $1 for mill operation, a few bucks for contour/stain/glaze. Plus, less skilled labor required to produce a unit faster than conventional. There is also a significant value to having 15 units milled e.max units overnight while the lights are out. I would reconsider these figures and the intangible value of automation.


You are getting a better ROI on the machine than I can reasonably anticipate given my volume and the fact that we work 4 days per week (16.67 days) per month.
 
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RJS8669

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Looking at a new VHF mill to get into milling eMax. What are the current costs for purchasing blue blocks thru Patterson?
 
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khatibdental.ak

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How much is pressure value in generic pintron outpress farnce?

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