How much volume..

[Affinity]

... would you need to sell e.max for $85/unit? Im earnestly asking because several competitors are doing this and now I am being asked to.. I am specifically wanting to hear from lab owners with less than 5-10 employees. Is this desperation or does it make sense to offer a lower price to group practices if they produce a certain amount. I will wait for some serious responses to let you know my thoughts.. Leave a poll opinion if you want to remain anonymous.

 

[Presswood]

... would you need to sell e.max for $85/unit? Im earnestly asking because several competitors are doing this and now I am being asked to.. I am specifically wanting to hear from lab owners with less than 5-10 employees. Is this desperation or does it make sense to offer a lower price to group practices if they produce a certain amount. I will wait for some serious responses to let you know my thoughts.. Leave a poll opinion if you want to remain anonymous.

No, no, no!!
That's craziness!!!
I can't understand at all why working for fees like that & glidewells fees would be desirable or fun. Seems like there would be better ways to make a living. That's just me though, to each his own!!

 

[user name]

Terrible idea. I set my prices, not the other labs.

...and business is good. Very good.

 

[RJS8669]

Had a conversation with Wieland/Ivoclar rep yesterday. Was talking to to him about the Hybrid Select. I asked what the true cost of milling eMax (Cost of machine, materials, tooling and labor) was and he stated $55-60 depending upon your labor rates. Even going model-free that's way above a 50% Cost-of-Goods-Sold using an implied fee of $85.

My advice? Let them do it. They will either go out of business or suffer an early death...

 

[2thm8kr]

I'd work the night shift at 7-11 before I put up with a bunch of incompetent hacks for less money and two to three times as much work to sell a crown.
Call me stubborn or foolish. For that kind of profit margin, if you want to call it that, I'd have to do something else or get a paycheck from some other labowner that is trying there luck with that strategy.

Edit: I'll add that if you are being asked to do this, obviously you are providing something that your competition is not. Don't do it. Raise the bar in your area.

 

[charles007]

Hell no !!!!!!!!!!!! I would sign up for food stamps before I joined other stupid lab owners who are in a hurry to rush to the bottom to stay in business.
Please excuse me, I need to puke

 

[charles hallam cdt]

The sad truth is the assembly line labs will do this work for that price because they do 100's of units a day with no regards for quality control and free remakes. You can't and shouldn't try to compete. I've turned down two accounts because of this. It's a race to the bottom alrite to the bottom of bad dentestry. To much to say bout how I feel.

 

[charles hallam cdt]

 

[ts4341]

I just re did a single central for new client that's gruru lab missed the shade twice on. I saw the lab slip for EMAX cutback layered with porc. From them......$350 per unit. Damn! I was at around $200, after I nailed the shade, i raised my price up to $249.95. And I just took a shade for him today for 7,8,9,10 EMAX cutbacks. Gave myself and the government a raise EMAX FC $ $212

 

[Affinity]

Thanks for replies everyone.. This obviously was a baited question.. I was asked by the new owner of a Dr I work for to match a price from another lab an hour away.. I must have seemed pretty rude when I laughed at her when she suggested $85 for an emax crown.. but I couldnt help it.. I have never heard of prices like that from a small lab.. The volume is probably around 100 units a month maybe, not sure. Its just crazy, Im certainly sticking to my prices which are around the $200 range. Im sure I will still get custom work from local pts .. but yeah.. there are lots of bottom feeders out there.. is it really that bad?

 

[grantoz]

at 85 dollars for the emax and working on the 1/3 cost 1/3 profit 1/3 tax rule does this mean the dr will only charge $255 to the patient in total.l really doubt it ,what are they total numpties?

 

[Mike2]

Charge more do less, that was taken from an old business man I worked for. You could lower your prices by 10%...20%...just remember it takes the inverse increase in volume to make the same profit mg. There was a good article in IDT about lab/Dr realationships and I do believe there will always be Dr's willing to pay a fair price for good quality, heck there are also some that will pay 2 times what many charge, but they expect to see the difference and also expect not to have issues that weren't communicated to them before product was delivered. i have been doing this too long,(30yrs) to start trying to reinvent the wheel. I pay more for things in my own life than i used to because it is all about the return I get. I don't wotk on my car as much as I found it easier to let the expert fix it right once than me twice, not to mention the free time i gained. I pay more for outdoor equipment knowing it will work as represented. Remember that these Dr's who ask for price match will only keep squeezing, next it will b turnaround times, custom shades and maybe even dog sitting cause the other lab has dog boarding as a perk......Do your work well as if it was for your mother and the business will come.my2cents

 

[Tom Moore]

Pressed or milled?

 

[rkm rdt]

maybe if you charged more , you wouldn't have to go there?

 

[Car 54]

Thanks for replies everyone.. This obviously was a baited question.. I was asked by the new owner of a Dr I work for to match a price from another lab an hour away.. I must have seemed pretty rude when I laughed at her when she suggested $85 for an emax crown.. but I couldnt help it.. I have never heard of prices like that from a small lab.. The volume is probably around 100 units a month maybe, not sure. Its just crazy, Im certainly sticking to my prices which are around the $200 range. Im sure I will still get custom work from local pts .. but yeah.. there are lots of bottom feeders out there.. is it really that bad?

What I'd also want to ask the Dr. is are you trying to compete with (will not name the 3-4 location Dental "mill" in this state) or Aspen Dental, in which they would out of pride probably say no, then why would I want to compete with the GWs or the $85. emax labs? If my work, my years of skill and knowledge, my care and concern for all involved, the Dr, and especially the patient as a person, isn't worth what they're paying, then I'll join 2thm8kr doing the night shift on mescaline (or mushrooms ) at the local 7/11 with less stress and hours.

 

[Affinity]

The most interesting part of this is that lab 'A' has done these Drs work for a while now but I learned yesterday that another lab, has matched Lab As $85 emax price. The other lab is less than 5 people.. I just cant see, even milling wax/pressing, how you can find any profit in this.. Unfortunately in all this, the original Dr/staff want to keep using me, but their hands are tied by the corporate owners..

Just looking at basic costs of probably around $15-20 for materials alone per unit, and the 2-3+ hours of labor of around $30-40, and overhead costs.. What is left???

There has to be someone other than Tom wiling to do emax for less than $85.. anyone willing to admit it?

 

[charles007]

Lets say lab A decides to lower their emax price to $85.00 to keep an existing account, how will this challenge labs willing to lower their prices ?
Lab A:
1. I didn't do the math but I'm assuming lab A will need to immediately pick up new accounts to double the volume of emax to break even, or maybe slightly better profits if you double your volume. Depending on your emax pricing, you may need to triple your volume to increase your profits. Sweet, what a great idea, lower my pricing to keep an existing account with no pressure to pick up ? numbers of new accounts to make this idea work for your $85.00 emax account.

Lab B:
High volume prospective practice demanding $85.00 unit emax for xxx units per month.
1. Will lab B need to buy another pressing oven to meet the volume, another burnout oven ?
2. Higher volume also means stocking more inventory of emax ingots/blocks/investment/stones, etc.. there is a cost for increased inventory !

Lab C:
Lab C drops off emax demo crowns at all of lab A and B's accounts and offers an $80. emax crowns..$75.00 crown or $69.00 emax off a file..
Where does it end ?

This time next year many labs with low and high prices will have closed their doors, and the owners will retire or died off.
Some labs will price themselves right out of business, and many will lose accounts from not buying into the digital world.
There will always be cheaper labs to compete with around the block or in your accounts mail box, and that will never change.

Edit: I think I would be more worried about losing accounts if I had lower prices compared to average to higher pricing.

 

[Car 54]

Lets say lab A decides to lower their emax price to $85.00 to keep an existing account, how will this challenge labs willing to lower their prices ?

Edit: I think I would be more worried about losing accounts if I had lower prices compared to average to higher pricing.

As with you, charles, your edits are always a good edition to your posts. In this case, I think it kind of hits the nail on the head. That if we get into the "beat the Jones's prices", that type of Dr will tend to be swayed by the lower price because of the flyer they just got in the mail, or dropped off from the other lab, are then the ones who would then be more willing go to another lab for $5. -10. cheaper. Once you get into that arena with that type of account, comes more of the fear of losing them.

At some point, don't even the bigger labs start losing money, if not just breaking even, if these price wars keep going?

 

[h.tavares]

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[h.tavares]

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