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    Discussion in 'ivoclarvivadent' started by Patrick Coon, Jul 11, 2017.

    1. cadfan
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      cadfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Hi Patrick you stop at 31.7 the other mills only Programill s for the future is it right ???
       
    2. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      Not sure what you mean? Programills will be released later this year
       
    3. cadfan
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      cadfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Zenotec is history in a few days ??!! only Ivoclar digital survive so maybe some zenotec mills are history ?? Ivoclar digital has 4 mills ??!!
       
    4. labtek

      labtek Member Full Member

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      Does anyone know any further details about this Zirconia? Is it a completely new zirconia or have they just relabeled their previous Wieland Zenostar?
      Emax Zir-CAD
      MT Multi-A2
      "IPS e.max ZirCAD discs are available in three levels of translucency (MT, LT, and MO) and in an innovative polychromatic MT Multi layered version. The centerpiece of the new system, IPS e.max MT Multi, has been designed with a special powder formulation and innovative shading technology. The results are reportedly restorations that demonstrate a natural progression of chroma and translucency from dentin to enamel. IPS e.max ZirCAD MT Multi is said to allow for the efficient production of restorations in A-D shades without requiring further characterization or staining. "
       
    5. labtek

      labtek Member Full Member

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      Has this zirconia been released yet?
       
    6. user name
      Question

      user name Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Ive had it for a couple months.
       
    7. labtek

      labtek Member Full Member

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      what kind of results have you experienced?
      HOw does it compare to other zirconias you have tried?
      How does it compare to emax?
       
    8. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      Hi CADFAN,

      Sorry, I didn't understand before.

      You are correct that going forward we will only sell the Programills, or Wieland machines will be supported, but no new ones will be sold.

      The Programills have been designed by us and our being built by us in or Burs, Austria production facility. This is the same facility that our other equipment is produced.

      I'm just waiting on an exact release date.
       
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    9. user name
      Question

      user name Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      I don't like e.max.

      The shades Ive used of ZirCAD, the cervicals are nice. The incisals are a bit too bright and not as translucent as I normally like. I have other Zrs that I use much more, but they have their short comings too. Its just another option I keep on hand. You never know what youre going to need. I do use it, and when its a betteroption for a case, Im glad I have it.

      Not all teeth are created equal.
       
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    10. TheLabGuy

      TheLabGuy Just a Member Full Member

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      Awesome Patrick, however...hope you get a raise my friend, you've been a great resource on this forum for a long time already. However, I do look forward to what tid bits come down the pipe in the future.
       
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    11. Car 54
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      Car 54 Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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    12. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      The MO, LT (LT1, LT2, etc.), and MT (standard MTBL) are the same material as the Zenostar with a new label. What is new are the Shade specific versions of the disks (LTA1, LTA2, MTA1, MTA2, etc.) and the MT Multi. The MT Multi is a polychromatic/polytranslucent disk that is overall 850Mpa in strength. Currently it is available in four (4) shades (BL2, A1, A2, A3) with four more shades coming around the first of the year (A3.5, B1, C2, D2).

      Those wo are using them, I'm interested in your feedback. Let me know what you like and don't like.
       
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    13. grantoz
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      grantoz Well-Known Member Full Member

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      hi patrick great to see you on board im just going to address the elephant in the thread.why does ivoclar not like techs anymore ? and are you guys paying to be a sponsor to try and mend a few bridges ?.please dont say nothing has changed etc we all read the memo from ids most of us did so on this very website.
       
    14. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      HI grantoz,

      I appreciate your comments and will answer your concerns as best I can, but I am here to help the dental community in general and the dental technicians specifically, and not to be political. These are my personal thoughts, feelings and perspectives from my position as a Technical Consultant in the company.


      “why does Ivoclar not like technicians anymore?” “please dont say nothing has changed” - Well, you’re not going to like my answer, but as a company nothing has changed. We are a DENTAL company and have always made materials for both the technician and the dentist and this won’t change. We have a lot of technicians in the company (as many as the number of dentists, if not more) and we are here to support our fellow technicians. Are we as highly responsive as we used to be, maybe not, but the company has grown leaps and bounds since we started the “Esthetic Revolution” back in the late 90’s with IPS Empress and then gained even more momentum in 2005 with the introduction of IPS e.max. I personally don’t think we were quite ready for the growth we’ve had over the last 12 years. I will however say we have made great strides getting back in touch with the technician base over the last couple years. Unfortunately, it’s human nature to hear the one bad statement and hold on to that (even though it was retracted and acknowledged that it was poor wording) than to remember the many things that are done well. And yes, the wording of the blog post (that actually came out in February, a full month prior to IDS and the uproar) was poor and did not adequately convey the thoughts and ideas behind the article.

      ” and are you guys paying to be a sponsor to try and mend a few bridges” – Short answer, NO. I’ve been on this forum for years, on my own (although I worked for IV, but not because I worked for IV). My intentions have always been to further the knowledge and understanding of the technician and to help with troubleshooting. I have always tried to stay away from selling or pushing any products, although I have suggested certain products I’ve used and taught in courses. After doing this a couple times, it had been jokingly suggested that I should have IV sponsor the site if I was going to suggest product. I agreed and started working to get the company to sponsor me on the site. But it is a conscious decision of ours to not advertise sales and specials, but to promote education (hence the reason for our banner sends you to our TechTip Video section and not to the general IV site or our LabShop). Now, I will admit that the IDS uproar did come into the conversation in the later meetings, but was not the reason for the meetings, I had been talking to our marketing people since well before that came up. Are we hoping this will help mend a few fences? Absolutely. Is it the reason I’m here? Absolutely not! You, the dental lab community is the reason I’m here. Ever since I was a technician in the U.S. Air Force, I have always tried to pass on my knowledge and techniques to others, as well as learn from others. I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years, and I’m still a student as well as being a teacher.


      Thank you to everyone the site for allowing me to contribute. I ask that we keep it that way. I would like to stay away from these subjects, and focus on the lab work, because that’s why I’m here.
       
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    15. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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    16. grantoz
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      grantoz Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Patrick i didnt respond straight away as i wanted to have a considered approach to my response.1st in all honestly if this was about 1 badly translated memo i think that it would be unfair to say ivoclar didnt like technicians. BUT after years of ivoclar going out of their way to train dentists on how to mill in house with sirona and the way the training stafff are constantly having unprofessional jibes to dentists about how easy it is to do emax and that you dont need the tech to do it or just get your nurse to do it etc its obvious that things have changed, just recently i wanted to send 2 of my techs to a tooth anatomy course with ivoclar as a reward for good work it was combined with a cad cam course as we already have mills etc we just wanted to do day 1 of a 2 day course .Ivoclar had seperate pricing for 1 or 2 days we booked months in advance got the early bird rate the works. We start getting sorry we are over booked you havent filled the form yet you will have to do another course later and every other fxxxing excuse to get my techs out of the course because they wanted dentist there instead. i realise that sure you can sell more mills that way to dentist etc i have been in business for 25 years myself but im sorry dont tell me things havent changed , ivoclar was a great company with excellent training for technicians now its really a one trick pony trying to hang on to the emax gravey train for as long as possible. Thankyou for your answer and please dont think im trying to shoot the messenger.
       
    17. nickate

      nickate Member Full Member

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      FB_IMG_1439417963205.jpg
       
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    18. John C

      John C Member Full Member

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      Hi Patrick. I have a question for you regarding speed sintering and the special slotted tray used with your Ivoclar sintering oven. Im just wondering what is the advantage of using the slotted sintering tray while sintering? What could happen if using a speed cycle with a standard sintering tray?
       
    19. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      Hi Grantoz,

      I'm sorry this is the perception you have. And I am full aware that your perception is your reality. I can really only speak for what we do here in the U.S. as that is where I am and the people I know well. I am sorry for the run around you got on your course, it sounds like the ball was dropped, either on our part or yours (again not blaming you, but I was not involved and am only getting one side of the story).

      As for doing Sirona training, yes, we were very involved in the beginning, but have not done a Cerec training in the U.S. since around 2010. Yes we do still do e.maxCAD training, as in teaching technicians, doctors and assistants how to handle and finish the materials that come out of a mill (any mill), but there is no software or design training in that. That may change again with the introduction of our mills and 3Shape partnership, but that is yet to be finalized.

      Let us please put this behind us, as I am not going to change your mind with anything I say, and you will not change my mind either. Let us move forward with this relationship, and hopefully through my actions you will again be able to gain some faith in Ivoclar's commitment to the technicians.

      Thank you all for your support and allowing me to be here for you! (sorry @nickate , you may have too much popcorn for this show ;))
       
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    20. Patrick Coon
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      Patrick Coon Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      My understanding with the slotted tray is that it allows the tray to expand and contract with less stress during the sintering cycle (or crystallization firing , as the standard crystallization tray has it as well). Does it really make a difference, not sure, but you know when engineers get involved they like belts and suspenders.

      Just one thing to remember when using a slotted tray, don't place your restorations over (across) the slot. This could lead to distortions during sintering (or especially with crystallization, as the units are anchored to the tray).
       

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