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    FCZ Adjustment after milling

    Discussion in 'Fixed' started by griffmar79, Dec 14, 2016.

    1. griffmar79
      Amused

      griffmar79 Member Full Member

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      What is everyone's consensus? Our ceramist takes all the cases thru excursions and removes interferences. This takes her half the day for about a dozen units. Cant this be done in virtual articulator in 3 shape? Im looking to save time but not sacrifice quality if that's possible. :)
       
    2. 2thm8kr
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      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      Can't speak for 3Shape, but I do this everyday in exocad and it works like a charm. I am guessing that it would work the same in the cheese Danish software.
       
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    3. Affinity
      Question

      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      What are your occlusal settings? This is probably the biggest problem I have is adjusting after milling. I dont want it too far out of occlusion but it never seems to be far enough out. Banghead
       
    4. Sda36

      Sda36 Member Full Member

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    5. rkm rdt
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      rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Probably the Russians.
       
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    6. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      4hr for 12 units? YIKES!
      it can be done in 3shape. and should be. 98% of the general settings can be tweaked for Dr preference. it should take 2-3min per crown to verify contacts and occlusion. or less. utilize the tech!
       
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    7. 2thm8kr
      Devilish

      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      Remind me on Monday
       
    8. Affinity
      Question

      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Ive used 25 microns (shimstock) for a while now because if its too far out of occlusion I have to remill.. Some Drs want shimstock to hold, others use 200 micron!
       
    9. 2thm8kr
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      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      Develop a dossier system for your client's settings.
      I have two guys that I am right on the money by free forming the occlusion to a pin point and using cut intersections in exocad. After glaze the contacts are right on most of the time holding mylar ribbon in situ.
      My others I do the same, but I don't use cut intersections and go by color of the pin point contact's intensity. This is for clients that aren't as exacting or have different staff members doing the temps. I have found that the less time the patient is in a temp the less adjustments are made. Most of my single monolithic crowns are returned in two or three days unless I am slammed, some same day if appointed. Makes a big difference.
      Start with one client you trust and ask for their feedback on a specific patient's crown, then go back and look at the intensity map of the contacts in your software, keep notes and make adjustments until you get a range they are accepting. Takes some time and persistence, but pays off long term.

      I have a competitor near me that is mostly analog. I respect his skills and over the years we have had a lot of the same picky clients sending work to both of us.
      Since I have moved to digital I am getting all of the work from the client's that sent to both of us unless I am slammed. When I ask them why, the response is mostly the consistency of the seating times 10-15 min. They say that the patient's comment on how easy the seat appointment was compared to all of the other restorations they've had over the years. So I spend a lot of time with any new client and try to find the sweet spot for them using this system. If I can't find a range that works for them in a reasonable amount effort, then I let them drift to another lab. The process of weeding out the docs that aren't consistent in their techniques allows we to focus more on the ones that appreciate the effort.
      $.02
       
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    10. ps2thtec
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      ps2thtec Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Do you ever use the Correct Antagonist feature before design in wizard?
       
    11. Affinity
      Question

      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I rarely design in exo.
       
    12. 2thm8kr
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      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      Maybe that is the problem?:D

      Seriously, I used other CAD software before exocad and developed this idea using it and transferred the technique to exo. Certainly the hearing aid software can do something similar.
       
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    13. Affinity
      Question

      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I really dont see why you think exo is any better.. I get the joking around but.. its 6 or a half dozen to me.
       
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    14. user name
      Question

      user name Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Rather than one vestibular scan, I rotate the view 180 and grab another scan. That gives more surface for the scans to mesh and has eliminated any need to go into expert and adjust antagonist.

      I use the color map in 'show proximity' to get the occlusion dialed in so when I lastly adapt and cut occlusal intersections at .28 it wont hardly take anything off. Eye ball the adjacent teeth for wear so you can design ridges with similar incline.

      Im quickly converting Drs to model free. They say the fits are great, minimal adjustments and only because of a slightly tight contact here and there.
       
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    15. 2thm8kr
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      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      Exo provides freedom to do what I want. Very flexible, powerful software. If you think paying an exorbitant amount of money for software that does the same thing, more power to you. You obviously don't understand the power of open software and the freedom it provides to solve problems. To each their own.
       
    16. edwarddental

      edwarddental Member Full Member

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      Not everything can be done in the scanning software parameters settings , some depends how software will aligned upper/lower ( sometimes it can be off a little) some depends on the mill calibration .
       
    17. ps2thtec
      Question

      ps2thtec Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      o_O Didn't realize I contributed to another hijacked thread from OP question.Stupido2
       
    18. Getoothachopper
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      Getoothachopper Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      I was wanting to get the virtual artic for Exo but the re seller told me it wasn't that useful . It's good to hear that you use it ,I balance all my occlusion on metal artics but it always seemed to me it would be better doing it virtually.
       
    19. Ken Knapp
      Inspired

      Ken Knapp Active Member Full Member

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      How do you set adjacent teeth contacts for crown path of insertion without using a solid model for adjusting?
       
    20. 2thm8kr
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      2thm8kr Beanosavedmysociallife Full Member

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      The first step in exocad is setting the orientation of the mesh. I use a 'bomb site' technique of looking from occlusal view and determine a path of insertion for the prep and adjacents then set that as the orientation. It's important to see if the margins in the proximal areas are obscured by the adjacent teeth. I adapted this to exocad from chairside CAD software I originally learned on.
      My adjacent contacts are free formed to the color intensity needed for each client. Anything apical of the contact area is removed to avoid interferences of the insertion axis while still keeping the contact area as full as possible. In most cases this works great unless the adjacent teeth are tipped toward one another. POI isn't always occlusal to apical direction, sometimes the crowns roll in from the buccal or lingual with adjacent teeth tipped toward each other. I don't regularly use the cut intersections for proximal contacts.

      Most all of my single or multiple singles in a quadrant come from IO scans so I don't have the luxury of checking them on a solid model. When I first started designing crowns with no models we had trouble with the contacts. I asked one of the guys I work closely with to take a small impression of the prep and adjacents so I could work out a technique. For the most part we have consistent results, but the mouth is a dynamic place so I will err toward a heavier proximal if I have a doubt about the case.
       
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