Fast sintering

Drizzt

Drizzt

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Hi everybody ,

What is your opinion of fast zirconium sintering ? I am searching a sintering oven and I have seen many furnaces that can sinter zirconium in 90 minutes , and not just for single coping . Two of them can sinter bridges up to nine pieces in 80-90 minutes . Has anyone tried it ? Thanks .
 
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Brodoris

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Dear Drizzt,

I think the furnace which working temp. is 1800deg.c is suitable for sintering zirconium. I have a furnace, heating rate is 20deg.c/min. I use it sintering dental zirconium,it is no problem.
 
ParkwayDental

ParkwayDental

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Well from what I have experienced with mine is it is so so. I can fire a full contour zirconia in 3 hours and it works but the color isn't as good as your typical 7 hour cycle. Now for just a standard pfz coping I can fire in 90 minutes and it works fine but anytime I run the fast fire I would not put more then one or two units in the furnace. I only use it when my a#$ is in a bind and have to get something done ASAP. As far as bridges don't even take the chance. Oh and stay away from the microwave ovens unless u want it blowing up!!!
 
Drizzt

Drizzt

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Well from what I have experienced with mine is it is so so. I can fire a full contour zirconia in 3 hours and it works but the color isn't as good as your typical 7 hour cycle. Now for just a standard pfz coping I can fire in 90 minutes and it works fine but anytime I run the fast fire I would not put more then one or two units in the furnace. I only use it when my a#$ is in a bind and have to get something done ASAP. As far as bridges don't even take the chance. Oh and stay away from the microwave ovens unless u want it blowing up!!!

Have you ever tried bridges ? 10 single copings ? Sirona and Vita claims that their furnaces can sinter bridges up to 9 units in 90 minutes !!!! I wouldn't try it but ... I t sounds tempting ! A company is offering me a brand new Programat S 1 4500k less than normal price and i am thinking about it . The 90 minutes sintering sounds really nice ! Is it too good to be true ? If it doesn't working then I should look for something else , cheaper . What furnace do you have ? Thanks .
 
DMC

DMC

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I cannot do 90 minute sintering.

It looks like crap. (Thick units and pontics)

Tried it over and over.

You need 60-90 minute hold time at high temp, and you cannot ramp up Zirconia but so fast, then time to cool some.

I tried to blast up the Zirconia from 0-1530 with my BIG furnace, but it did not work like I thought it would.

There is definatly a limit as to how fast you can ramp-up.

Many newer non-acidic stains will Char or turn Zirconia Grey/Brown/Blackness if temps are not right in early stage of sintering.

Also, you can end up with too much trans and the value is all wrong, you will have all sorts of random results from same exact stain and Zirconia.

We ruined many many units playing around and learning.
 
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ParkwayDental

ParkwayDental

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Have you ever tried bridges ? 10 single copings ? Sirona and Vita claims that their furnaces can sinter bridges up to 9 units in 90 minutes !!!! I wouldn't try it but ... I t sounds tempting ! A company is offering me a brand new Programat S 1 4500k less than normal price and i am thinking about it . The 90 minutes sintering sounds really nice ! Is it too good to be true ? If it doesn't working then I should look for something else , cheaper . What furnace do you have ? Thanks .

Nope I have never tried bridges just have to much on the line to ruin things! I would only put one coping and even still like Scott said it's really a pain. It is like a boat! BOAT= Bust Out Another Thousand because you will have to keep redoing everything! The S1 is nice but it only holds about 15 to 20 units not worth the time of day if your are serious about milling in my opinion!
 
Drizzt

Drizzt

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Thank you guys . So 90 min sintering is just another sales crap right ? Tyler , what furnace do you have ?

Dimitris
 
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ParkwayDental

ParkwayDental

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I have two of the Origin Duo Tron's. For just a basic simple coping it works but for a fcz it's not worth it.
 
Vazone

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Yes, we have mighm Vogt furnace with 70 deg ramp. Program is 30 min at 1510 deg. With heating and cooling at 70 deg / min
But not for stained or translucent zr. And not more than 3 units ( by instruction)
 
Drizzt

Drizzt

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Yes, we have mighm Vogt furnace with 70 deg ramp. Program is 30 min at 1510 deg. With heating and cooling at 70 deg / min
But not for stained or translucent zr. And not more than 3 units ( by instruction)

I am trying to visit their website but I can't . How much did you pay for your furnace ?
 
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rickb

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Anyone familiar with AUSTROMAT baSiC ? and its cost ?
 
shane williams

shane williams

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Thank you guys . So 90 min sintering is just another sales crap right ? Tyler , what furnace do you have ?

Dimitris
No it is possible with the mihm vogt oven. For super fast program only 5units at a time is recommended. Not for bridges only singles. Look like they do if I put them through a 5 hour cycle
 
Sevan P

Sevan P

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We use this one, ORIGIN CAD/CAM

I have fired plenty of ZR copings, full contour crowns on their quick mode and they also have a FC quick mode, but no difference. Roughly 2.5hrs run time plus cool down so almost 3.5-4 hours.

Sevan
 
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paulg100

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"I have fired plenty of ZR copings, full contour crowns on their quick mode and they also have a FC quick mode, but no difference. "

so you concluded that by looking at it :confused:


looks aside (hardly scientific),how much strength is lost and what other parameters are affected, ie speed of hydrothermal aging etc.

Forget about asking reps of the equipment, they will just say it works fine to sell their kit.

better to contact the manufacturer of the zirconia you are planning to use. They should have this data no problem.

id prefer to know whats going on that i cant see, before sending out a ton of compromised restorations.
 
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Sevan P

Sevan P

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"I have fired plenty of ZR copings, full contour crowns on their quick mode and they also have a FC quick mode, but no difference. "

so you concluded that by looking at it :confused:


looks aside (hardly scientific),how much strength is lost and what other parameters are affected, ie speed of hydrothermal aging etc.

Forget about asking reps of the equipment, they will just say it works fine to sell their kit.

better to contact the manufacturer of the zirconia you are planning to use. They should have this data no problem.

id prefer to know whats going on that i cant see, before sending out a ton of compromised restorations.

Obviously by fast sintering zirconia you are changing some of the properties! But if you plan on fast sintering all your zirconia all the time the you are an idiot! Guarantee the strength is effected, how much, I personally do not know. You would have to send out a regular fired coping and a fast fired one to the mfg of your ZR you use to have them strength test it. But as far as color and fit no difference. I wouldn't even think about fast firing a 3-4 unit bridge, that's is just not smart. As far as the 90min firing maybe but only for a display model not for something that is gonna go in a patients mouth. Would you put it in your mouth?
 
Drizzt

Drizzt

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Is something else other than strengh changed if zirconia is sintered in a 90 min firing ? I bought a Programat S1 sintering oven that has the ability of 90 min sintering for singles . I don't have any experience with sintering , and in the next month I will start inhouse milling and sintering so any advice is welcomed . Thanks .
 
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BobCDT

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Obviously by fast sintering zirconia you are changing some of the properties! But if you plan on fast sintering all your zirconia all the time the you are an idiot! Guarantee the strength is effected, how much, I personally do not know. You would have to send out a regular fired coping and a fast fired one to the mfg of your ZR you use to have them strength test it. But as far as color and fit no difference. I wouldn't even think about fast firing a 3-4 unit bridge, that's is just not smart. As far as the 90min firing maybe but only for a display model not for something that is gonna go in a patients mouth. Would you put it in your mouth?

Sevan,
Right on!
Following manufacturers instructions on sintering cycles is criticle for Zircona. The cycle have been tested and proven to provide ideal strength and esthetics. Randomly changing the mfg recommendation may and most likly will alter the final product.
That said, when purchasing a sintering furnace I would want the capabilities for a fast fore cycle. This is something we all would love to have and I am certain many Zi mfg's are working on developing fast fire materials.
Bob
 
ParkwayDental

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I was at old Jim Glidewells facility about a month ago and they have a furnace that will fire a FCZ in 12 seconds with plasma, not even joking.
 
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charles007

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I just bought a Mihm Vogt HTs Speed that will soon have a newer upgrade to sinter in 60 minutes.. No way will I ever sinter using the fast/speed sintering features this oven has until the zirconia manufactures give 100% approval. It is nice to know I have a oven that has the ability to fast and speed sinter zirconia in the future when it does happens.
 

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