Engaging Verification Jigs

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Carlos Robayo CDT

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Dear memebers.. You all know the verification jigs made for All-on-four type cases where the jig is made with non-engaging copings fitted to Multi Unit abutments.. is anyone making jigs with engaging copings fitted directly to the implants?? this is for fixed-restorative cases. We know it's tricky and if aggressive implant divergence is present it's tough but I'm looking for ideas for this.. in some cases we use combination of engaging copings and Multi unit abutments modified just for making the jig..

thoughts...?
 
JohnWilson

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Hi Carlos

What we are seeing more of are cases being impressed at the fixture level with hopes to not have to use MUA's. I disagree with this restorative path as its exceedingly easier when the proper abutments are in place to bring the restorative platform up to gingival height. The problem or necessity to this path is generally due to lack of surgical planning for the intended restorative path.

Some of the reasons I see this happening is:

1) Patient is wearing a conventional denture and the client does not want to deal with MUA's in the way until the transitioned appliance or BETA of the hybrid is ready.
2) Dr does not want to be responsible for ordering the proper cuff heights of the abutments
3) Dr is trying to see if he can save the money and not use MUA's

If the case is an immediate load case, (transitioned imd denture) most times the surgeon is doing his job and placing the MUA's and the path is set, HOWEVER if they are just going to uncover after integration the path is less clear.

So here is the challenge we are ready for final imp, no MUA's are in place , We are now taking a fixture level impression with the POSSIBILITY of adding abutments we need to know where the internal engaging element are no mater what. This means we need to use engaging parts. Nobel makes some short engaging impression copings to help release when we need to go this route but when joining these together in the mouth with an open tray impression its very hard to get the case to release. SO i prefer when we have our master model poured we will need to now determine if we will be adding abutments to the case. It's not always easy to know the angulation without having our diagnostic done or at least scanned into the computer which makes it even more complicated. Now you see why I frown upon this path.

To complicate things even more I have had some clients order Nobels NON ENG ANGLE MUA's oh what a headache these are. Its one of the worst products I have ever seen hit this market. It was created to be a band aid for poor surgical work especially when used in conjunction with the nobel REPLACE fixtures.

So now the next topic comes up are we going to make our verification jig at the fixture level or at the abutment level?

If I am adding abutments to a fixture level impression I require a new impression at the abutment level. I will add my abutments to the models and use non eng temp cylinders that make a jig and then section it and make a custom tray over it. I then have the client join the jig in the mouth and make the master impression. After we pour this model up I section the custom tray to try and SAVE the joined jig. I clean the jig up and reinforce and this will be returned with a screw retained bite rim to get moving to the next step. Its at this step that the true validation of our master model is known. I request digital verification to come to my email before we move forward with the case.

Now it's pretty straightforward once you get here and it becomes so perfectly clear why surgical planning is so important for these cases.

So as I wrap up this novel I will just share there is a reason why the lab needs to take a bigger piece of the restorative pie.

My main reason for sharing is in hopes to help the younger techs looking to set their own protocols up. It's so important to have everyone on the team on the same page and not alter from a known successful path. Both YOU and your restoring client are married to these cases, don't let your clients inability to follow your path become a financial burden for you by allowing them to call the shots. I don't care how many initials they have behind their name or how many successful cases they have done "Their way" If they want to work with me I am strict on my path. Trust me I am not joking I have turned down huge dollar cases from new clients when they did not want to partner with me. I sleep much better doing it the right way.
 
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Carlos Robayo CDT

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Hi Carlos

What we are seeing more of are cases being impressed at the fixture level with hopes to not have to use MUA's. I disagree with this restorative path as its exceedingly easier when the proper abutments are in place to bring the restorative platform up to gingival height. The problem or necessity to this path is generally due to lack of surgical planning for the intended restorative path.

Some of the reasons I see this happening is:

1) Patient is wearing a conventional denture and the client does not want to deal with MUA's in the way until the transitioned appliance or BETA of the hybrid is ready.
2) Dr does not want to be responsible for ordering the proper cuff heights of the abutments
3) Dr is trying to see if he can save the money and not use MUA's

If the case is an immediate load case, (transitioned imd denture) most times the surgeon is doing his job and placing the MUA's and the path is set, HOWEVER if they are just going to uncover after integration the path is less clear.

So here is the challenge we are ready for final imp, no MUA's are in place , We are now taking a fixture level impression with the POSSIBILITY of adding abutments we need to know where the internal engaging element are no mater what. This means we need to use engaging parts. Nobel makes some short engaging impression copings to help release when we need to go this route but when joining these together in the mouth with an open tray impression its very hard to get the case to release. SO i prefer when we have our master model poured we will need to now determine if we will be adding abutments to the case. It's not always easy to know the angulation without having our diagnostic done or at least scanned into the computer which makes it even more complicated. Now you see why I frown upon this path.

To complicate things even more I have had some clients order Nobels NON ENG ANGLE MUA's oh what a headache these are. Its one of the worst products I have ever seen hit this market. It was created to be a band aid for poor surgical work especially when used in conjunction with the nobel REPLACE fixtures.

So now the next topic comes up are we going to make our verification jig at the fixture level or at the abutment level?

If I am adding abutments to a fixture level impression I require a new impression at the abutment level. I will add my abutments to the models and use non eng temp cylinders that make a jig and then section it and make a custom tray over it. I then have the client join the jig in the mouth and make the master impression. After we pour this model up I section the custom tray to try and SAVE the joined jig. I clean the jig up and reinforce and this will be returned with a screw retained bite rim to get moving to the next step. Its at this step that the true validation of our master model is known. I request digital verification to come to my email before we move forward with the case.

Now it's pretty straightforward once you get here and it becomes so perfectly clear why surgical planning is so important for these cases.

So as I wrap up this novel I will just share there is a reason why the lab needs to take a bigger piece of the restorative pie.

My main reason for sharing is in hopes to help the younger techs looking to set their own protocols up. It's so important to have everyone on the team on the same page and not alter from a known successful path. Both YOU and your restoring client are married to these cases, don't let your clients inability to follow your path become a financial burden for you by allowing them to call the shots. I don't care how many initials they have behind their name or how many successful cases they have done "Their way" If they want to work with me I am strict on my path. Trust me I am not joking I have turned down huge dollar cases from new clients when they did not want to partner with me. I sleep much better doing it the right way.

John thank you for taking the time to write down your thoughts on the matter.. I agree with you in a lot of your points, I wish more surgeons/GPs placing would at least plan their placement even if don't go guided..
When doing a fixture level jig for some of my cases I use engaging Ti cylinders and MUA's selectively on implants severely tilted, but it's critical that I index the cuff of the MUA and modify the engaging features of the cylinders for a quick release of the jig while keeping it engaging; I split the jig for two separate pieces if needed. Custom tray is always included. The new model should definitely be more accurate and the reason behind all this.
I then proceed to do whatever I need to do (not necessarily including MUA in the final treatment).. By throwing a MUA or two and modifying the other cylinders I'm making for easier "release" of the open tray., -- Indexed MUA's can be sterilized and reused for future jigs though..

For indexing the MUA's I make three notches on the elbow region of the MUA helping me re-align all pieces before pouring models., this is when implants are not too deep and the elbow region of the MUA is equal-gingival to supra.. in a a deeper implant situation then I may suggest keeping the MUA in mouth and a whole different treatment plans develops..

I'll snap a picture on my next one see what you think..

Take care John..
 
JohnWilson

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John thank you for taking the time to write down your thoughts on the matter.. I agree with you in a lot of your points, I wish more surgeons/GPs placing would at least plan their placement even if don't go guided..
When doing a fixture level jig for some of my cases I use engaging Ti cylinders and MUA's selectively on implants severely tilted, but it's critical that I index the cuff of the MUA and modify the engaging features of the cylinders for a quick release of the jig while keeping it engaging; I split the jig for two separate pieces if needed. Custom tray is always included. The new model should definitely be more accurate and the reason behind all this.
I then proceed to do whatever I need to do (not necessarily including MUA in the final treatment).. By throwing a MUA or two and modifying the other cylinders I'm making for easier "release" of the open tray., -- Indexed MUA's can be sterilized and reused for future jigs though..

For indexing the MUA's I make three notches on the elbow region of the MUA helping me re-align all pieces before pouring models., this is when implants are not too deep and the elbow region of the MUA is equal-gingival to supra.. in a a deeper implant situation then I may suggest keeping the MUA in mouth and a whole different treatment plans develops..

I'll snap a picture on my next one see what you think..

Take care John..


Sounds great, I always love to see how others do their work. I am always looking to learn and improve.
 
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Taylor Stutz

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Hi Carlos

What we are seeing more of are cases being impressed at the fixture level with hopes to not have to use MUA's. I disagree with this restorative path as its exceedingly easier when the proper abutments are in place to bring the restorative platform up to gingival height. The problem or necessity to this path is generally due to lack of surgical planning for the intended restorative path.

Some of the reasons I see this happening is:

1) Patient is wearing a conventional denture and the client does not want to deal with MUA's in the way until the transitioned appliance or BETA of the hybrid is ready.
2) Dr does not want to be responsible for ordering the proper cuff heights of the abutments
3) Dr is trying to see if he can save the money and not use MUA's

If the case is an immediate load case, (transitioned imd denture) most times the surgeon is doing his job and placing the MUA's and the path is set, HOWEVER if they are just going to uncover after integration the path is less clear.

So here is the challenge we are ready for final imp, no MUA's are in place , We are now taking a fixture level impression with the POSSIBILITY of adding abutments we need to know where the internal engaging element are no mater what. This means we need to use engaging parts. Nobel makes some short engaging impression copings to help release when we need to go this route but when joining these together in the mouth with an open tray impression its very hard to get the case to release. SO i prefer when we have our master model poured we will need to now determine if we will be adding abutments to the case. It's not always easy to know the angulation without having our diagnostic done or at least scanned into the computer which makes it even more complicated. Now you see why I frown upon this path.

To complicate things even more I have had some clients order Nobels NON ENG ANGLE MUA's oh what a headache these are. Its one of the worst products I have ever seen hit this market. It was created to be a band aid for poor surgical work especially when used in conjunction with the nobel REPLACE fixtures.

So now the next topic comes up are we going to make our verification jig at the fixture level or at the abutment level?

If I am adding abutments to a fixture level impression I require a new impression at the abutment level. I will add my abutments to the models and use non eng temp cylinders that make a jig and then section it and make a custom tray over it. I then have the client join the jig in the mouth and make the master impression. After we pour this model up I section the custom tray to try and SAVE the joined jig. I clean the jig up and reinforce and this will be returned with a screw retained bite rim to get moving to the next step. Its at this step that the true validation of our master model is known. I request digital verification to come to my email before we move forward with the case.

Now it's pretty straightforward once you get here and it becomes so perfectly clear why surgical planning is so important for these cases.

So as I wrap up this novel I will just share there is a reason why the lab needs to take a bigger piece of the restorative pie.

My main reason for sharing is in hopes to help the younger techs looking to set their own protocols up. It's so important to have everyone on the team on the same page and not alter from a known successful path. Both YOU and your restoring client are married to these cases, don't let your clients inability to follow your path become a financial burden for you by allowing them to call the shots. I don't care how many initials they have behind their name or how many successful cases they have done "Their way" If they want to work with me I am strict on my path. Trust me I am not joking I have turned down huge dollar cases from new clients when they did not want to partner with me. I sleep much better doing it the right way.


Hate to bother you, but im currently in the process of scanning and designing a MUA case, but i cant seem to figure out the best way to get the scan for these Nobel MUA Ti Anchors. The abutments are already placed (subgingival) in the mouth and model. as far as i know anyways, and i was informed by my removable lady that, i needed to have some kind of lip to catch the anchors within the milled removable ill have in the end. My question is, do i scan in the Nobel MUA scan body and that will tell the program where to catch the lip of the anchor and the holding position of the sleeve that the anchor slides into. How would one set this up if im going in the wrong direction. Im not fully competent on what is supposed to be the actual connection and if im going the wrong direction or not making sense, help would be awesome! Thank you!
 
lcmlabforum

lcmlabforum

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First of all, what are hyou designing for - a fixed-detacheable hybrid case or PFM?
If they are already placed subgingivally, do you have a scan body that is radio-opaque like most of them are, that
you can seat and verify seating before intra-oral scanning?
If it is purely removable, why do you need a MUA in the first place?
If you are not sure, suggest you find a prosthodontist locally to help you out before making this any worse . . . not that
you are not capable but hate to see you order unnecessary parts you cannot return after that.
Just my 2 cents,
LCM
 
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gallagerdental

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May I suggest a thought. If making a verification jig, and you can't seat the whole jig(fixture level) be it engaging or not, I've been contemplating using a precast screw block with retention tails, to tie the sections together. Yes, this may seem extreme, but sometimes extreme measures need to be used. These precast sections can also be reused. Just thinking ahead, in case I need it in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dmonwaxa

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@ Taylor Stutz

What software are you using? Use appropriate scan bodies and design as usual. You can always modify the abutment bottoms and the design.
 
CreDes

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@ Taylor Stutz

What software are you using? Use appropriate scan bodies and design as usual. You can always modify the abutment bottoms and the design.

I honestly don't know, but is it allowable to alter/round off the hex on titanium abutments? I have been thinking about this lately and wanting to get away from using UCLA abutments. I hate UCLA's!
 
dmonwaxa

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CreDes... I meant within the SW design. For example in Exocad if the initial design incorporated a, particular abutment in cad then, that can be changed later even if its a completely different design. Providing its in the library. However its been known to modify the hex if the restoration is splinted, as in a bridge.
 
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