Emax Ingot Choice Poll.

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

HT VS LT.
I am just curious about your goto ingot selection for monolithic posterior full crowns.
Do you use mostly HT or LT ingots?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

looking forward to the MT, it prob will take over the LT

 

[rkm rdt]

FCZ

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

FCZ

must be a canadian ingot

 

[rkm rdt]

must be an american savant.

Was it the zee or the zed that threw you off?

 

[desertfox384]

The MT is just the value (impulse) ingots we've already had for years.
I used them for awhile for all of my post. full contour crowns.. it works fine, but obviously you need to stain a little more for darker shades, so I ended up switching back to LT.

 

[Patrick Coon]

The MT is just the value (impulse) ingots we've already had for years.
I used them for awhile for all of my post. full contour crowns.. it works fine, but obviously you need to stain a little more for darker shades, so I ended up switching back to LT.

While this is indeed true, when the rebrand comes out the line will also be expanded so you will have more than three choices (7) and eventually most if not all shades. So less staining for darker shades.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

The MT is just the value (impulse) ingots we've already had for years.
I used them for awhile for all of my post. full contour crowns.. it works fine, but obviously you need to stain a little more for darker shades, so I ended up switching back to LT.

Ivoclar plans on releasing the MT ingots in all 16 classic shades just as they did with the LT and HT ingots. they may even have an announcement coming up soon

 

[desertfox384]

While this is indeed true, when the rebrand comes out the line will also be expanded so you will have more than three choices (7) and eventually most if not all shades. So less staining for darker shades.

I'll be switching back to impulse once they're available!
Patrick let me pick your brain, do you think it would have been better for Ivoclar and technicians if you designed the entire emax system from the beginning to be based on values and not shade? My thought is it would have been less development for Ivoclar, and less inventory for labs.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Personally, yes. And when asked about what to stock I suggest a much smaller inventory than each shade in both sizes. But, originally not all shades were available and we would constantly get the question of where is "such and such" shade and how can I make an A4 if I don't have an A4 ingot/block. So they expanded and gave everyone every shade. So when they developed the MT (Values) they tried to go back and say depending on the thickness and stump you can use them for shades between BL3 and A1/B1. Unfortunately, a lot of technicians (and doctors with the blocks) didn't understand this completely. So now that the line is expanding they decided to give them A-D shade names to make it "simpler" for people to understand.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

would love to see ivoclar get into some of the more tricky 3D shades. 3R's and 5M's
that would help a TON

 

[AL1]

Patrick, what cycle would you use on the ep 3010?
The HT?

 

[Patrick Coon]

Al,

If you're talking about pressing the Values then you would either use the Impulse programs (since they are in the Impulse Line) or you can use the HT programs. They are the same programs just listed separately so as not to confuse people.

 

[biodentg]

Hi Patrick, What about disposable plungers? I know Ivoclar will not recommend it's use, but many people are having success with them.
Do you think an additional program for IVO furnaces should be created to press emax with disposable plungers?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Hi Patrick, What about disposable plungers? I know Ivoclar will not recommend it's use, but many people are having success with them.
Do you think an additional program for IVO furnaces should be created to press emax with disposable plungers?

just curious why you think a different program would be needed?
i use disposable plungers exclusively. never an issue. heck i make all of my own disposable plungers for free too.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Hi Patrick, What about disposable plungers? I know Ivoclar will not recommend it's use, but many people are having success with them.
Do you think an additional program for IVO furnaces should be created to press emax with disposable plungers?

Short answer, No. I see no real advantage to purchasing (or making my own) disposable plungers. It is one more thing I need to buy (or spend my time making) on a regular basis and one more cost. AlOx plungers are so sturdy and nearly indestructible, and if plunger separator is used so easy to clean, just 3-4 seconds more with the glass beads. In fact to speak of their longevity, I was in the Air Force and at my last base we bought the Empress system way back in 1999 and were still using the same plungers when I left the base in 2013. Granted we were using them less and less from about 2009 onward because we were starting to use e.max, but they were still being used when I left.

Okay, that was not so short but that is my personal opinion on the matter.

As for IV developing a program designed specifically for disposable plungers, which brand would we choose, as each company that makes them (or like sidesh0wb0b who makes his own) uses a different investment material, that has a different density and hence a different heating profile. So the program that works "perfectly" for one may not work at all for another. So do they develop one for every brand of plunger. Then you would have to start developing one for every brand of investment, and every brand of press furnace and finally every combination of these factors, which would make our trouble shooting calls even bigger nightmares then some are now. There is no need to do this as e.max was developed as a system that is known to work when you use all the parts as they were intended to be used.

Does this mean we won't help you when you call and the only part of the system that you use is the ingot, BY ALL MEANS NO. We will try to help guide you through the process and offer suggestions on how to get your particular set-up to work, but it does mean that when this is your scenario, you have a little bit of research and development to do to see what works for your situation.

I hope this does not sound like a rant (it does to me a little ),because it really is not. It is my opinion on your question and I do not hold anything against anyone who feels differently, as that is their right.

 

[Gru]

Ingot choice for me is always based on the desired outcome (I know, duh). In my eyes some shades are hit much more closely by changing translucency/ ingot choice. This is especially true when dealing with the pink in so many 3d shades.
Biodentg: your pre-programmed ivo oven programs will work as flawlessly with disposable as with alox. I just hate coating & cleaning the alox plungers.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Short answer, No. I see no real advantage to purchasing (or making my own) disposable plungers. It is one more thing I need to buy (or spend my time making) on a regular basis and one more cost. AlOx plungers are so sturdy and nearly indestructible, and if plunger separator is used so easy to clean, just 3-4 seconds more with the glass beads. In fact to speak of their longevity, I was in the Air Force and at my last base we bought the Empress system way back in 1999 and were still using the same plungers when I left the base in 2013. Granted we were using them less and less from about 2009 onward because we were starting to use e.max, but they were still being used when I left.

theres no expense or real time involved in making them. in fact, since its free to make, and I save the cost of alox sep, and save on the labor of cleaning the alox plungers....its far less expense and time consumed.

 

[desertfox384]

I dunno.. I've been using the same two alox plungers for over 5 years now.. Cleaned them only a couple times (which by the way takes about 10 seconds each). I would think there is more labor over the years of making molds and pouring your own but still probably not a ton of time lost there. It's cool to do things your own way, but for me it seems the more I stray from the intended way of doing things the more problems I have... And then when a problem arises it's harder to track down the source. But that's just me.
I started out with a pro press 100 and had nothing but problems for 2 years, tried all kinds of different temps, investments and could never get it right. That's when I bought the ep5000 and never looked back.

 

[rkm rdt]

So making a plunger is less labour than cleaning an alox.....Really? Did you do a time study?