EMAX HT ingots

[JohnWilson]

We did a 4 unit ant case that looked great on the model and hit the shade perfectly in the lab. Contours great but the case is low in value in the mouth and looks gray. Any advice on modifying what we have? I really don't want to repress this thing if I don't have to.

 

[Al.]

John that is exactly what happened to me. I did 5 anteriors in B1 HT. It looked great in the lab but grey in the mouth.
Now I do all my anteriors in LT.
The HT seems to pick up the grey from the mouth cavity.
I would redo it.

 

[charles007]

John, was this a B1 shade also? I've seen B1 shades grey out in metal ceramics when a A1 was a better shade. Did you see the patient, did the doctor pick the correct shade?
Al, John, what advice can you give having used the HT's so far, compared to the full contour LT's

Charles

 

[JohnWilson]

Shade was B1, we are going to repress in LT and shoot for a 1M1 shade.

The pic the Dr sent back looks like a perfect match, funny how the human eye and the camera lens can see things differently.

I like the HT ingots, we just need a bit more time with the product to learn proper ingot selection it appears.

 

[charles007]

John, order the newer Vita Bleachedguide 3-D-Master for your better accounts that do a lot of anteriors.... This was made as a tool to verify the bleaching process. This guide has the shades in the M range from 0M1 - 5M3.
What I'm seeing in stead of doctors using the lightest shades, A1 or B1, they now use this guide and choose the lighter shades OM1 thru 2.5M2 on many anterior cases
If you compare the B1 to the lighter 3D shades on this guide, the B1 is very grey............
Now we must make Ivoclar make these ingots in the 3D shades, but no, they want us to order their Chromascop ingots as a better conversion.......

Charles

 

[sixonice]

The HT ingots cannot be used for most full coverage restorations. These ingots are so translucent that when used in larger full coverage situations, we run into low value problems - exactly as was discussed on the first post in this thread. HT shines with the thin or no-prep veneers, inlays, onlays and SMALL full coverage restorations (anywhere this ingot can grab/absorb color). Also, the HT is very sensitive to underlying tooth color. The LT ingot is still the best choice for full coverage stuff because of it's value compared to the HT. I always wanted crowns that had great "translucency", glassy incisal edges, but over the years I learned that proper value is most important to me. The HT are a great addition to the e.max portfolio definetely, but LT is still the "workhorse" and the "go-to" ingot. Also, matching the 3D shade tabs is tough, no question. Making ingots that match those tabs closely would be next to impossible.

 

[NicelyMKV]

sixonice is right. I went to a clinic introducing the new HT ingot and the first thing they talked about was not using it on anything more then 1mm. It will turn grey in the mouth. It is ashame because you can make some beautiful full press stain and glaze crowns with these. Actually one tech told me that he would not go over 6 or 7 tenths with the HT. I still prefer to experiment myself. I agree with the LT being the work horse also. So many Docs will not take the 2 seconds required to get a prep shade.

 

[jwilson]

i am a nubee.
concerning emax, starting on my first case, 6-11
dr picked c1 shade.
the stumph color will compliment the target shade.
c1 being a relativley low value, low chroma look , which ingot would be the best choice?
been doing authentic pressable since dirt. emax offers strength and splint possibilities that are interesting. any help would be greatly appreciated.
john

 

[JohnWilson]

i am a nubee.
concerning emax, starting on my first case, 6-11
dr picked c1 shade.
the stumph color will compliment the target shade.
c1 being a relativley low value, low chroma look , which ingot would be the best choice?
been doing authentic pressable since dirt. emax offers strength and splint possibilities that are interesting. any help would be greatly appreciated.
john

Hi John,

Nice name, tell us a bit about yourself/where are you from ect.

See if this helps you a bit.

http://www.ivoclarvivadent.us/emax/documents/emax_Press-VA_2007-e-607621-NEW.pdf

John

 

[sixonice]

The reply above has the full instructions for use attached which was great!

For your case, I would defintely use the C1 LT ingot (Low translucency) with an slight incisal cutback/layering. In the instruction book, you would want to follow the section "Cut-Back Technique".

The LT ingot will hold your value and chroma nicely & as you mentioned, the stump color is of a lighter color and will not influence the final shade.

 

[subrisi]

I would use HT ingots only on thin cases where you dont have space to cut back and layer translucency over. I also would compare the ingot shade tab rather to the incisal 1/4 of the desired shade tab than the whole shade tab. That results in at least one to two shades lighter than the final shade. When I do thin onlays, I find the deisred incisal color and stain the "dentin"color. This way I eliminate low value results.

 

[ajames]

HT vs LT

I belive it is super important for the doctor to own an E. max Shade guide with the HT and LT shades, that way the comunication will be easier selecting the right value!
I´m a Doctor and I had the same problemns comunicating with my lab! I was just using the Vita shade guide.....I bought the e.max shade tabs and problem solved!
I hope this help
A.J

 

[charles007]

Thanks for the input Dr. AJ

 

[Mike Lomax]

Especially when using the Bleach Guide the actual tabs from the HT or LT guides should be used. Normally you will find that the lighter the shade the less gray you will have. Using the regular Ivoclar guide will lead you astray every time. When matching less than 6 anteriors you have your work cut out in most cases with HT shades. Especially lighter ones.

 

[Sevan P]

Have you played with the MT ingots?

 

[Car 54]

John that is exactly what happened to me. I did 5 anteriors in B1 HT. It looked great in the lab but grey in the mouth.
Now I do all my anteriors in LT.
The HT seems to pick up the grey from the mouth cavity.
I would redo it.

John, was this a B1 shade also? I've seen B1 shades grey out in metal ceramics when a A1 was a better shade. Did you see the patient, did the doctor pick the correct shade?
Al, John, what advice can you give having used the HT's so far, compared to the full contour LT's

Charles

Not having read the following responses after these, I'll still mention that yesterday one of my Drs mentioned he liked the A1s better than the B1s. I agree, especially with emax. The B1 in general seem to be low value. The low value issue has hit me also with the V (MT) ingots and found out I need to keep more of the contour in the emax material itself (i.e. no heavy Inc overlay). Also, that I need to use a "whiter" Inc the help make up for the translucent core lowering the value, so I go for a 57 + Bleach Inc. or a straight Bleach Inc. At times, on my wash, modifying my Inc wash with white Inc modifier 1:1.

 

[Car 54]

Shade was B1, we are going to repress in LT and shoot for a 1M1 shade.

The pic the Dr sent back looks like a perfect match, funny how the human eye and the camera lens can see things differently.

I like the HT ingots, we just need a bit more time with the product to learn proper ingot selection it appears.

I would use more of the LTs and V (MTs) on the anteriors, and the HTs on the posteriors for full contour monolithic restorations.

 

[Mike Lomax]

Have you played with the MT ingots?

Don't think so. Right now just LT or HT. You have a suggestion?

 

[charles007]

To put this in prospective, this thread was started in 2009 and a few posts in 2010 until yesterday 4 more posts were written. There has been a lot learned about emax ingot/block
usage since then, new ingots added, and a lot of us are replacing emax restorations with more zirconia. What I learned from other members in 2010, HT's grey's out in full contour
and especially on average to thicker crowns. One way around the value problem when using HT is using an ingot or block 1 to 2 shades lighter on the light to light-medium shades.
Except for a few emax crowns, its been 3 years since using emax, so I'm not up to speed on emax like I use to be.

 

[Car 54]

Exactly what I was going to say in my previous post, Charles, about using one shade lighter with the HTs in the posteriors. I'm just gun shy at times about divulging in an open forum to much info...you know, keep some cookies on the shelf Thanks for getting me (us) to see when this thread originally started, I missed that one