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E.Max Glaze

Discussion in 'All Porcelain-Press' started by Beach Bum, May 23, 2011.

  1. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum New Member

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    what do you do to get a good glaze on your e.max crowns, I have a ep3000 and one fire on the glaze program comes out very rough and look very underfired compared to my other pfm porcelain.
  2. amadent

    amadent http://amadent.net/Home.p

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    i press in zubler but the program i am using came right fromt he ivoclar emax book-how are you finishing your crowns proir to the stain and glaze bakes? ,Are you doing stain and glaze or layered crowns? - either way i would try raising my high temp, i glaze alot of my emax work twice
    Greg Amendola MDT
  3. ps2thtec
    Question

    ps2thtec Active Member Donator

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    Try spray glaze. Keep crown on the die when spraying
    to keep inside clean. If the glaze is too light on an area,
    hit with polish like DVA.
  4. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum New Member

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    I have only done two cases, the first I fired the glaze program twice it came out nice. The second I did the stain and glaze at the same time but only fired it one time, then I rubberwheeled it and hit it with some zarcon paste. It came out looking fine, but I didnt like haveing to take the time to do that. One of my freinds told me to rubberwheel it first then glaze, have you done anything like this and how did it work.
  5. amadent

    amadent http://amadent.net/Home.p

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    yes i go over my case with a grey rubber wheel prior to the glaze ( thanks Rob)
    but i still do stain bake and then a glaze bake
    i my experience stain and glazing at the same time doesnt work
  6. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

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    pre condition the surface with fine diamonds and a rubber wheel, then use the gc luster paste to glaze.

    You can get a really nice stain and glaze in one cycle with the above.
  7. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum New Member

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    Thanks for the help, I cant wait to get another case in to try the rubber wheel first.
  8. Labwa

    Labwa Member Donator

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    For monolithic you really have to rubber to a smooth surface to get rid of any porosities. I use a pink rubber wheel then i sandblast lightly at .5-1 bar to make sure the stain and glaze stays where i put it then layer the glaze paste quite thick and using the paste i have left over on the brush to run over the occlusion so no glaze slumps into the fossas.

    9 out of 10 cases you will not have to re fire.

    For layered its much the same. polish the ingot material but dont sand blast and polish the layered porcelain with a pink rubber and stain.

    Good luck.
  9. rkm rdt
    Artistic

    rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator

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    I add the glaze,then the stain and fire once.
  10. rkm rdt
    Artistic

    rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator

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    In other words, I stain the glaze.
  11. desertfox384

    desertfox384 Member Donator

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    Ya, we had same problem for the first few cases.. Then i started going over all that orange peely crud on the surface until mostly smooth with a diamond..then rubber wheel over that, then blast at 1 bar with aluminum oxide. 1-2 glaze firings (mostly 2) and they're good
  12. sixonice

    sixonice New Member

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    make sure if your doing monolithic (one-piece, no layering) you must have the high temp set at 770 Celcius. if it has ANY layering done on it, the glaze fires at 725 C. application is also key. if your doing monolithic, make sure you syringe out some glaze paste and mix it real good - dont cut it with liquid, and put a good layer on it. the pre-polishing may help, but check your temps and application technique.
  13. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

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    desrtfox - get the gc luster glaze, this will cut your firings to 1 guaranteed.

    Even using the emax glaze at 810c i still cant get as nice a glaze as with the luster stuff, just works so much better.
  14. user name
    Question

    user name Well-Known Member Donator

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    Its not a disadvantage to require two firings. Your chances of hitting the shade on a monolithic in one bake are slim. I like to prepolish with a Komet Blue Ceramic Polisher #94002 C. Then apply a thinned layer of glaze, check the colors and adjust. Then you can tweek the colors if needed along with the second glaze bake. Besides-its not just hitting the color, but there are variations in glaze that look natural, and doing a two step can minimize post polishing with diamond paste. Its tough to imitate trans cusp tips on one bake. If youre just using I1 &I2 stains, the value drops quick, but you can get the blue of trans in the first bake, and add the slightest white on the ridges and tips to imitate the frosty sparkle of enamel and add depth to the anatomy and restore a touch of value with the second firing.
  15. desertfox384

    desertfox384 Member Donator

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    Good points.. ive been doing usually a stain bake then 2 glaze bakes. What variations in glaze are you talking about?
  16. hickory94

    hickory94 New Member

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    We use 3G glaze for our emax and what I found is if you extend your hold time time they glaze very nice..only 1 firing...but keep in mind that is just my preference everybody likes there crowns differant...but the hold time seems to be the best answer...
  17. Mountain Goat

    Mountain Goat New Member

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    Smooth surface with a diamond, rubber wheel the high spots to smooth surface texture, blast with 50 mic aluminum oxide, clean, stain, fire, glaze, fire, I hit with a rubber wheel at the end and some diamond paste. You may need to calibrate your oven first, then consider raising your high temp 5-10 degrees (especially on monolithic,non layered), if high temp doesnt fix glaze then rais hold time 10 seconds at a time.....do NOT speed up the dry time with emax glazes or change heat rate. Also using GC Lustre Paste NF AFTER an emax glaze works great to fill a pit in or add a surface texture lobe, line angle or even a slight incisal edge/corner. But don't fire Lustre on a vacuum progran like Emax glaze....it will turn milky, it is air fire only. good luck.
  18. charles007

    charles007 Well-Known Member

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    Glazing monolithic emax is all about accepting the fact it's better to glaze twice, learning which tools work best to achieve a good glaze, and lastly, learning how little to dilute your glazing paste. I maybe the first to say this, I actually achieve very high glazes and trying to learn out to gain back that tectured look of layered porcelain ( press/fire in ep 5000) with monolithic emax.. and still learning. GC Lustre Stains helps with the texture, sometimes a bit of a problem matching the shade with their lack of colors. My favorite tool for finishing is my Noritakes Meister wheel. Its the SD-61, large diameter wheel, great to finish surface and around margins, any porcelain, will not chip emax or porcelain. This wheel is comparable to some of the Axis yellow wheels. The grey wheels used on porcelain margins that come in course, med, and fine, work great also, and diamonds. Lightly sandblast before glazing as directed in the emax manual.
    If your having problems, smooth off a cental test crown using one tool on the facial, and another on the lingual, and fire using glaze paste, no stain to see the difference. Just takes a little practice and being consistant to achieve high glazes in emax..... No big deal !
    Charles
  19. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

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    im using the GC luster paste then the empress stains which come in a good range of a-d shades.

    1 fire with high luster and good shade matches. Pretty happy with it now.
  20. charles007

    charles007 Well-Known Member

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    Paul, I keep forgetting to order Empress stains to use with my emax. Please elaborate on how you use Empress stains, and in conjuctions with GC Lustre. I love Lustre when it gives me the correct shade, but doesn't work all the time !! Don't understand why GC didn't add a "yellow" , orange, and a few extra colors.
    Charles

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