e.max CAD milling machine options

eyeloveteeth

eyeloveteeth

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I am sorry to hear you had quality issues, and although what you are sharing with me it is a very small percentage of cases, when it happens to you, it feel it's like 100%.
I would like to help and work with you on the issues you had. Please call me at 800.542.2307 ext 1275

By the way, what is your name and name of your lab?

We've offloaded the 4W because it really was a poor fit. Do you work for Roland?

I appreciate the offer.


We are not roland haters - in fact, the five DWX51's, 3 DWX50's and the 52DC that is coming in a week is a pretty good indicator of our Roland love ;)
 
James Babbi

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We've offloaded the 4W because it really was a poor fit. Do you work for Roland?

I appreciate the offer.


We are not roland haters - in fact, the five DWX51's, 3 DWX50's and the 52DC that is coming in a week is a pretty good indicator of our Roland love ;)

Good to hear, but I still don't know your name or the name of your lab... so I can thank you for the business when I see you at a trade show.
 
CoolHandLuke

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ive found with milled emax you really have to cherrypick your work. its gotta be clean and smooth shoulders or youll never get good results.
 
eyeloveteeth

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Good to hear, but I still don't know your name or the name of your lab... so I can thank you for the business when I see you at a trade show.

So you work for Roland? I'm not sure why I need to provide a name or the name of the lab if you're not answering my questions.

But if you do work for Roland, how about some clarity on new products and introducing yourself as someone willing to provide Roland FAQs?

Like maybe how the hell MillBox will integrate with new Vpanel for 52DC and what we should expect inside Sum3D

Or maybe what the ideal categorizational library would be for library files and how much additional metal holders may be from resellers and a showcase of how Roland has taken a concept that was initially only available in machines like the DMG Dental 10 changer and simplified it for every day use?


Are you possibly a tad short and were you at the Roland Booth at IDS? If you are, you've already met me. You completely ignored me while i stood around the 52DW (the one next to the 3D printer because you were too busy trying to take a selfie picture with some older gentleman)

If that wasn't you, then I apologize. But i believe it was

ive found with milled emax you really have to cherrypick your work. its gotta be clean and smooth shoulders or youll never get good results.

I've seen some amazing quality on margins with milled e-max (out of the Datron) - and more recently from the PM1 and PM7.

But yeah, i've also noticed alot of the solutions out there tend to be optimized for less constricting geometries
 
Jaemin Lee

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Hello Orto.
I didn't mean to involve in this threads but I cannot just pass by as I have been in this type of issue quite long.
I am a dentist in South Korea, and I own my small lab in my clinic.
First thing you should decide is that you could hire a dental technician and make an in clinic lab or not.
If you cannot afford the space for a lab and a technician then you should look to a CAD/CAM for clinic like CEREC or new released 3Shape's Trios Design Studio based system.

Those in clinic specialized CAD/CAMs don't need space and man power that much. CAD is easy to operate and mills are compact and doesn't require much time for fabrication.

If you're aiming only at emax, I'd recommend CEREC. The support and the user comminity will lead you to an easy way to operate in clinic CAD/CAM even though it is quite expensive.

But if you have enough time for 3Shape's new in clinic CAD/CAM, you may just watch how it's going on and decide to accept it or not.

I currently have two CAD/CAM systems in my clinic. One is 3shape based lab CAD/CAM and the other is CEREC in my clinic. And if you're thinking of fabricating emax prosthesis right now, then I'd recommend you CEREC.

If you are thinking of making surgical guide in your clinic, you should find a printing solution like Form2. Mill is not a proper way to fabricate surgical guides.

I hope this'd help you to find your solution.

Lastly I want to say that CEREC is very expensive but it's the only one proven CAD/CAM for dental clinic. If you dont want to get stressed about running your own lab, I highly recommend you CEREC. I've wasted lots of money and effort to find out this answer.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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CoolHandLuke

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Hello Orto.
I didn't mean to involve in this threads but I cannot just pass by as I have been in this type of issue quite long.
I am a dentist in South Korea, and I own my small lab in my clinic.
First thing you should decide is that you could hire a dental technician and make an in clinic lab or not.
If you cannot afford the space for a lab and a technician then you should look to a CAD/CAM for clinic like CEREC or new released 3Shape's Trios Design Studio based system.

Those in clinic specialized CAD/CAMs don't need space and man power that much. CAD is easy to operate and mills are compact and doesn't require much time for fabrication.

If you're aiming only at emax, I'd recommend CEREC. The support and the user comminity will lead you to an easy way to operate in clinic CAD/CAM even though it is quite expensive.

But if you have enough time for 3Shape's new in clinic CAD/CAM, you may just watch how it's going on and decide to accept it or not.

I currently have two CAD/CAM systems in my clinic. One is 3shape based lab CAD/CAM and the other is CEREC in my clinic. And if you're thinking of fabricating emax prosthesis right now, then I'd recommend you CEREC.

If you are thinking of making surgical guide in your clinic, you should find a printing solution like Form2. Mill is not a proper way to fabricate surgical guides.

I hope this'd help you to find your solution.

Lastly I want to say that CEREC is very expensive but it's the only one proven CAD/CAM for dental clinic. If you dont want to get stressed about running your own lab, I highly recommend you CEREC. I've wasted lots of money and effort to find out this answer.




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thank you for your perspective, nice to see a dentist coming to give perspective.

have you also tried Planscan+Planmill ? or Glidewell's TS150 ?

what about laser ablation via DentalWings?
 
Jaemin Lee

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thank you for your perspective, nice to see a dentist coming to give perspective.

have you also tried Planscan+Planmill ? or Glidewell's TS150 ?

what about laser ablation via DentalWings?

Thank u for your comment.

As our dental CAD/CAM market is too small compared with the U.S, we could barely see other CAD/CAM for clinics than CEREC until now.

Unfortunately, Glidewell's fastmill is never seen in my country so that I cannot make any comment on it.

Planscan and Planmill is a nice solution for in clinic CAD/CAM but the intraoral scanner is not fast as Trios or Omnicam. I've seen a new intraoral scanner at this IDS, but it was still not that impressive.

However their mill is very fast and stable. If a clinic has a lab based CAD/CAM system for 5 -axis dry milled zirconia and wants to buy additional wet mill only for ceramic restoration, I think Planmill can be the best choice as it accepts all STL format from other CAD programs.

Regarding lasermill, when I saw it at IDS, the machine was too large and it wasn't fast like the other fast wet mill machines(25 mins for a VITA enamic crown).Moreover, the RP of DW said that until now it only can fabricate resin-ceramic hybrid blocks like VITA Enamic. I think it should be improved much more to be accepted by DTs or doctors. However I think the huge background support from Straumann will make something sooner or later.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
James Babbi

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So you work for Roland? I'm not sure why I need to provide a name or the name of the lab if you're not answering my questions.

But if you do work for Roland, how about some clarity on new products and introducing yourself as someone willing to provide Roland FAQs?

Like maybe how the hell MillBox will integrate with new Vpanel for 52DC and what we should expect inside Sum3D

Or maybe what the ideal categorizational library would be for library files and how much additional metal holders may be from resellers and a showcase of how Roland has taken a concept that was initially only available in machines like the DMG Dental 10 changer and simplified it for every day use?


Are you possibly a tad short and were you at the Roland Booth at IDS? If you are, you've already met me. You completely ignored me while i stood around the 52DW (the one next to the 3D printer because you were too busy trying to take a selfie picture with some older gentleman)

If that wasn't you, then I apologize. But i believe it was



I've seen some amazing quality on margins with milled e-max (out of the Datron) - and more recently from the PM1 and PM7.

But yeah, i've also noticed alot of the solutions out there tend to be optimized for less constricting geometries

First, you said your Roland Wet mill is sitting in the corner collecting dust, but then you said you offloaded.
Second, you said we met at IDS, but then are not sure I was at IDS, even though you can see my profile pic and everyone at the IDS probably had a name tag or a badge.
Finally, I don't remember ever meeting anyone at any convention named eyeloveteeth... sorry. So I don't think we met.

So, how about an introduction, so I can address your questions regarding Millbox, Vpanel, Sum3D, etc...?

James Babbi
Sales Manager, US - Dental
Roland DGA
 
MikeW

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Like maybe how the hell MillBox will integrate with new Vpanel for 52DC and what we should expect inside Sum3D

Or maybe what the ideal categorizational library would be for library files and how much additional metal holders may be from resellers and a showcase of how Roland has taken a concept that was initially only available in machines like the DMG Dental 10 changer and simplified it for every day use?

Hi "eyeloveteeth"! Just wanted jump in here on your question regarding MillBox integration with VPanel. We had originally planned to launch the integration at the same time the machines were delivered but after close review, we did not think that this feature was streamlined enough to pass on to end-users in it's current state. We've been undergoing various testing internally and in coordination with the Roland DG team to address these issues and make sure that what gets delivered to end-users are both streamlined and intuitive. I believe we are very close to being able to provide this in the next few weeks but no firm ETA at this point.

As a software consumer myself, I know how frustrating it can be when a feature is released before it's ready, but I firmly believe that this will be worth the wait.

Today, we output just like any other Roland Mill and you are free to manage / setup sister tools directly inside of VPanel.

The idea for integration is that you will be able to set / select your sister tools within MillBox and the tool information (Including Tool Life) can transfer over directly into VPanel, thus saving the user time. We're also working on being able to read information from VPanel in real-time to provide better insight into what's going on with the machine. Regarding what is available now, you can actually read up on in the 52DC's User Manual available from Roland's website. Tool management remains the same in MillBox, the only real difference is the selection of the Pallet prior to calculation once per disc - the CAM will remember which pallet letter was assigned next time you choose it for a job.

Hope this helps clear up some questions, if there's anything else you'd like to know regarding MillBox or the integration, feel free to ask.

Mike Webb
President, CIMsystem USA
 
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Boozy woozy

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Im a dwx 4w user and I must concur with some of what has been said here . my dwx4w just sits and collects dust . The fits are horrendous unfortunately. Sheer waste of money that could have been better spent else where !!
 
Patrick Coon

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Get the new Programill One, from Ivoclar Digital. Best mill results I've seen from a mill for glass ceramics. It should start shipping this spring.
 
Matthew J Raes

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Hello everyone !

I´m a DDS in Aguascalientes Mexico, i have a small dental office and i focus my practice in dental implants and oral rehabilitation, actually i´m in the middle of the master degree in Prosthodontics and dental implants, so i want to get a milling machine to fabricate my restorations, now a days only offer e.max and i sent my works to an external lab, but there is some issues like delayed deliveries and i´m not very happy with that.

Recently i bought a used MEDIT SE scanner i only use for scan models for fabrication of 3D surgical guides, now i really want the milling machine, my options are:

Roland DWX4-W
Wielland Hybrid
Amman Girrbach ceramill mikro ic

i´d really appreciate your advice and valuable opinions !

Thank You


We have used the AG Ceramill for mainly Emax blue block with great results. The wet mill/ dry mill option is great to have when needing to mill other possibilities but rarely ever has a problem with milling our EMAX. If you would be interested in seeing pictures of the different stages I could do that for you as well. Thank you.
 
MikeW

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Im a dwx 4w user and I must concur with some of what has been said here . my dwx4w just sits and collects dust . The fits are horrendous unfortunately. Sheer waste of money that could have been better spent else where !!

Hi Boozy, how old is your mill? If you're having fit issues, I would recommend working with / communicating with your dealer to resolve the issue rather than simply set the machine in a corner to collect dust. If it's still under warranty, you don't really stand to lose anything. Seems like a wasted business investment to me - while I know of many DWX-4W users that use the machine and get great results consistently. There are preventative maintenance procedures (like with any mill) that if not followed, can lead to bad results. Roland has also come out with some additional guidelines for maintenance on the mill - post-launch that could address problems that you may have experienced.
 
James Babbi

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Im a dwx 4w user and I must concur with some of what has been said here . my dwx4w just sits and collects dust . The fits are horrendous unfortunately. Sheer waste of money that could have been better spent else where !!
I am surprised that after making that investment, you haven't reached out to your dealer or to Roland directly. We have several testimonials from doctors, labs, and milling center using the DWX-4W producing dozens of restorations daily. If you want to send me the serial number, I will find out when you bought it and I will contact you directly.
 
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Get the new Programill One, from Ivoclar Digital. Best mill results I've seen from a mill for glass ceramics. It should start shipping this spring.
Funny... you work for Ivoclar so of course you will say your machine is better. I'm curious to ask you: you launched it at IDS 2017. A year later, still nothing... Plus being hostage to your proprietary mandrels, doesn't look like an open system to me. I want the freedom of milling non-Ivoclar products.
 
Patrick Coon

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Funny... you work for Ivoclar so of course you will say your machine is better. I'm curious to ask you: you launched it at IDS 2017. A year later, still nothing... Plus being hostage to your proprietary mandrels, doesn't look like an open system to me. I want the freedom of milling non-Ivoclar products.

Yep, I do work for Ivoclar, but anyone who knows me will tell you I won't say "it's the best I've seen" unless I mean it. Granted, I may not have seen something out of every mill out there, but I've seen a good share of them.

Launched at IDS, Yep. Still not out, Yep. Believe me, a frustration for us, but they will actually start shipping late this spring. We were a "little" off on the release date because we didn't want them in users' hands until they were ready. We feel they are finally there.

Only our materials, Yep and Nope. At initial release, yes it will only be our materials (e.maxCAD, ZirCAD, TelioCAD, TetricCAD),but sometime after that you will see other materials from other manufacturers on our mandrel, just the same as you did with Sirona or PlanMeca (E4D). Nice thing is a lab will be able to buy our materials direct from us and not pay the markup you get when going through a dealer.

The mill will be able to accept any STL file for milling as well. So there is no need to use a specific design software or output a proprietary file format for the mill to use.
 
McTeeth

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Yep, I do work for Ivoclar, but anyone who knows me will tell you I won't say "it's the best I've seen" unless I mean it. Granted, I may not have seen something out of every mill out there, but I've seen a good share of them.

Launched at IDS, Yep. Still not out, Yep. Believe me, a frustration for us, but they will actually start shipping late this spring. We were a "little" off on the release date because we didn't want them in users' hands until they were ready. We feel they are finally there.

Only our materials, Yep and Nope. At initial release, yes it will only be our materials (e.maxCAD, ZirCAD, TelioCAD, TetricCAD),but sometime after that you will see other materials from other manufacturers on our mandrel, just the same as you did with Sirona or PlanMeca (E4D). Nice thing is a lab will be able to buy our materials direct from us and not pay the markup you get when going through a dealer.

The mill will be able to accept any STL file for milling as well. So there is no need to use a specific design software or output a proprietary file format for the mill to use.
Has this mill been released yet?
 
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