Does anyone know an alternative furnace to Ivoclar's EP5000???

[anne2010Ma]

Hi Everyone,

I'm in the process of going on my own and opening up my lab. I was wondering if anyone out there know if there is an alternative furnace that can do the type of pressing that the Ivoclar Vivadent's Programat EP 5000 combination furnace? The EP 5000 is quite expensive and I can't afford it.

I know EP 600 combi does but they don't sell it anymore and I can't seem to find anyone selling it.

I found someone selling EP 500 but I am not 100% sure it will do all the pressing that the EP 5000 can. Does anyone know?

I heard Whip Mix Pro Press 200 porcelain furnaces can. Has anyone used the Whip Mix Pro Press 200 to press IPS e.max Press lithium disilicate? Have they had any problem.

If anyone can help I greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

Anne

 

[sixonice]

they sell the EP3000 pressing/combi furnace at a reduced price. it is like $2,200 less than the EP5000. yes, the 5000 is really sharp - lots of "bells & whistles" but the 3000 does the job very nicely (and is a good bit easier on the pocketbook) and also works great as a regular porcelain oven which is nice when your starting up. do yourself a favor and get the 3000. the other ones you mentioned are less expensive, yes, but you will thank yourself when all you need to do is plug it in and start pressing. you get what you pay for and you will pull your hair out trying to "dial in" any other ovens and wasting ingots, your time and your money. check it out for yourself here: Ivoclar Vivadent - Programat EP 3000

 

[rabia]

Hi Anne, check this thread out (does anybody have PRO press 100/pro press 200 from Whipmix) i post it 2 days ago since i am going to open up my own lab too

 

[anne2010Ma]

Hi sixonice and rabia,

Thank you for the quick reply.

Sixonice, do you know if

Ep500 (http://www.ivodent.co.za/DOCS/IPS_Empress_EP500_Press_Furnace.jpg)

can do all the pressing (ie MO, LT and HT) that EP3000 or EP5000 can do? The reason why I am asking is because I know someone who has an EP500 and wants to sell it to me. I just need the pressing functionality. I already have P300 furnace which I can use to do baking. I never used EP500 before. I used EP600 combi and it was relatively easy to use. Is the EP500 as easy as EP600 combi?


If EP500 can do all the pressing what EP3000 or EP5000 can do I would rather get that over Whip Mix furnace because it's from Ivoclar.

rabia, I can't seem to find your thread on PRO press 100/pro press 200 from Whipmix. I am a little hesitant to buy it because I heard there is a lot of playing around with the program and getting used to it. Have you used it before?

Thanks so much guys!

Anne

 

[rabia]

i was confused like you if i should go for the cheap Pro press or the Ivolcar EP5000 which is too expensive for me as i will just start my own lab too, the Pro press is good they say but you have to know the parameters and play around a little.. since i want to play it safe i will go on and buy the EP3000 which is cheaper than Ep5000 and for the same quality i will lose all the whistles Ep5000 has tho
look in the equipment forum if you like to find the thread.

 

[Wyolab]

Hey guys, I don't know what it's worth but my EP600 Combi works great. From what I understand on the Ivoclar pressing ovens there is a feedback sensor system that tells the oven when a ring is completely pressed, versus the Whip Mix for example, which presses strictly on the settings you program in. Sixonice is right they do take some dialing in, everyone I talked to that used them has said that. My Ivoclar rep was pretty good about telling me that my oven was fine, maybe you should ask them. I told him I had an EP 600 Combi, and he told me they were running a really good deal on the new ones but mine would work fine.

 

[charles007]

Hey Guys, I have the ep5000 and love it....Lightly touch the screen and your done. If you can read the program on the screen, its impossible to use the wrong program, no matter what your firing or pressing or ring size.
I've pressed 61 emax ingots, less than 100 units without any failure as of today.....not many ingots, but 100% success rate on every emax crown.
If I were to buy another furnace today having said that, I would look seriously at the Zubler and the new Whipmix. Zubler is cheaper than my 5000. Been told you can buy from another company other than Jensen for the Zubler... Also told Jensen is willing to deal ? Can't go wrong with the 3000 either..........just fewer bells. Actually decided to spend the extra on the 5000 over the 3000 because of the extra year of warranty with the 5000. (both come with a free loaner and free shipping)
Whatever you choose, you will be using it for many many years to come....

Charles

 

[AL1]

I have the EP600, my rep came over and downloaded all the programs for emax. Works great.
I dont know if its the emax or the pressing furnace.
I am guessing its a combination of both.
I try to use total systems where the manufacturer has worked out all the bugs or will back up products if they havent.

 

[charles007]

Al1.....I agree about the total system....... and thats the reason I went with Ivoclar, having zero experience in pressing anything.......

 

[Al.]

Hey Guys, I have the ep5000 and love it....Lightly touch the screen and your done. If you can read the program on the screen, its impossible to use the wrong program, no matter what your firing or pressing or ring size.
I've pressed 61 emax ingots, less than 100 units without any failure as of today.....not many ingots, but 100% success rate on every emax crown.
If I were to buy another furnace today having said that, I would look seriously at the Zubler and the new Whipmix. Zubler is cheaper than my 5000. Been told you can buy from another company other than Jensen for the Zubler... Also told Jensen is willing to deal ? Can't go wrong with the 3000 either..........just fewer bells. Actually decided to spend the extra on the 5000 over the 3000 because of the extra year of warranty with the 5000. (both come with a free loaner and free shipping)
Whatever you choose, you will be using it for many many years to come....

Charles

Charles youve always had the 5000 ? For some reason I thought you had the 500.
I got the 3000 a couple of weeks ago, but its still in the box. Ive been too busy to set it up.
I will soon but I am going to press only one ring with it first rather than a whole weeks worth to make sure everything is in order.

 

[Toast]

Hi sixonice and rabia,

Thank you for the quick reply.

Sixonice, do you know if

Ep500 (http://www.ivodent.co.za/DOCS/IPS_Empress_EP500_Press_Furnace.jpg)

can do all the pressing (ie MO, LT and HT) that EP3000 or EP5000 can do? The reason why I am asking is because I know someone who has an EP500 and wants to sell it to me. I just need the pressing functionality. I already have P300 furnace which I can use to do baking. I never used EP500 before. I used EP600 combi and it was relatively easy to use. Is the EP500 as easy as EP600 combi?


If EP500 can do all the pressing what EP3000 or EP5000 can do I would rather get that over Whip Mix furnace because it's from Ivoclar.

rabia, I can't seem to find your thread on PRO press 100/pro press 200 from Whipmix. I am a little hesitant to buy it because I heard there is a lot of playing around with the program and getting used to it. Have you used it before?

Thanks so much guys!

Anne

If you can get a deal on an ep500 I'd go that route, especially since your just starting up. I've had an ep500 well over 10 years with no problems, that model is a work horse. I've talked to the guys in technical for ivoclar and they've said you can't kill those things. I love mine and if I ever get another it will be second to the 500. Just my opinion though. All the ivoclar ifu's give the pressing parameters for the ep500, so I can't imagine not being able to press anything. Not sure about the 300g ring now that I think about it but I have never needed to use that size. I use 200g ring for everything. Good luck with your start up.

 

[charles007]

Al,
I bought the whole shebang at the same time....Emax kit, Programat EP5000 and the Programat P500 and my lifting at the margin Dsign porcelain kit , but pretty ! that now collecting dust.........
Al, bet you dollars to donuts that Ivoclar would have lowered the price on the 5000 had you toyed with them about the lower priced Zubler !
That 3000 is great, used it in Fla. alone with the 5000 when I got Emax certified. No difference to speak about except the touch screen.
When I was in Fla , they had the first models of pressing ovens that still work...don't know the model # Maybe there made by Timex, they never break....... Another reason I bought the 5000.......
I'm assuming I will under ground and my 5000 will keep on pressing for some other bench monkey..Computerized bench monkey that is !

 

[sixonice]

Hi sixonice and rabia,

Thank you for the quick reply.

Sixonice, do you know if

Ep500 (http://www.ivodent.co.za/DOCS/IPS_Empress_EP500_Press_Furnace.jpg)

can do all the pressing (ie MO, LT and HT) that EP3000 or EP5000 can do? The reason why I am asking is because I know someone who has an EP500 and wants to sell it to me. I just need the pressing functionality. I already have P300 furnace which I can use to do baking. I never used EP500 before. I used EP600 combi and it was relatively easy to use. Is the EP500 as easy as EP600 combi?

Anne, yes the EP500 is a fine pressing oven. If you can pick one up for a good price that would be a good way to to. Like you mentioned, it is only a pressing oven. Now, with all that said, here is a couple things to consider: The EP500 runs with compressed air or nitrogen/argon. The EP3000 & 5000 have an electronic press drive on them and need no air supply. make sure you can manage that if you go this way. Also, the 500 is first Ivoclar press and you may want to call or ask your sales rep about spare parts and so-forth you you need them. I am sure you can get muffles and common parts easy still. The 500's are workhorses and many of my lab friends still use them. You can always begin and build your business then get a newer 3000 next year or something like that? You can program it to press e.max very easily as well.

 

[anne2010Ma]

sixonice, if you had a choice between EP500 or the WhipMix Pro Press 200, which one would you buy? The problem with EP500 is that they don't sell them anymore and if I do find one it will be used. The fact that its used there's a chance that I can run into problems and since it was the first generation I don't know if Ivoclar have parts. Also, I'll probably have to pay like $1000 for it.

I wouldn't mind getting the WhipMix Pro Press 200 because it's around $3000 so it's relatively cheap compared to EP3000 or EP5000. The only thing that is stopping me from getting the WhipMix Pro Press 200 is that I read that you have to play around with the different temperature before getting a real clean press. If I had the right parameter for all the different type of Emax ingot to enter into the WhipMix Pro Press 200 then I wouldn't mind getting it. I don't want to get the furnace and find out I can't even press because I don't know the correct parameters. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Anne.

 

[sixonice]

sixonice, if you had a choice between EP500 or the WhipMix Pro Press 200, which one would you buy? The problem with EP500 is that they don't sell them anymore and if I do find one it will be used. The fact that its used there's a chance that I can run into problems and since it was the first generation I don't know if Ivoclar have parts. Also, I'll probably have to pay like $1000 for it.

I wouldn't mind getting the WhipMix Pro Press 200 because it's around $3000 so it's relatively cheap compared to EP3000 or EP5000. The only thing that is stopping me from getting the WhipMix Pro Press 200 is that I read that you have to play around with the different temperature before getting a real clean press. If I had the right parameter for all the different type of Emax ingot to enter into the WhipMix Pro Press 200 then I wouldn't mind getting it. I don't want to get the furnace and find out I can't even press because I don't know the correct parameters. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Anne.

If you can get a decent used EP500 for $1000, I would get that. Like I mentioned, you can still get spare parts like muffles and head seals and not much really goes wrong on those things. Obviously, newer is always better and the Pro-Press will work, you will just have to dial things in until you get good, clean complete pressing with minimal reaction layer. Folks on here can help with that. It might take you 2 or 3 presses to get things right, could take 10 or more. The 500 will have the press temps and parameters set and ready. ask the person selling the 500 how many hours are on it, how well they maintained it and if they have pressed e.max in it.

 

[anne2010Ma]

Hi Sixonice,

so $1000 for the EP500 is a good deal? If it's over that is it still worth getting it?

I called Ivoclar and talked to the equipment support and they told me EP500 can press all the emax ingots that ep3000 or ep5000. I asked him about the parts he said they have everything except for the front panel. Not sure how often that breaks.

With regards to the WhipMix I do want to get it simply because it's only $2000 more than the EP500 (that's if I can get it for $1000) and it's new. What's stopping me is that I don't want to get it and find out that the pressing isn't turning out. I don't want to be playing around with the parameters all the time. When you say "dial things in" do you mean for each press I would have to manually enter the parameter in every time I use it? Can it not store the parameter? I never use WhipMix Pro Press before. I was told someone on this forum has the correct and working parameter for the WhipMix Pro Press. If I can get a copy of the working parameters isn't it better to just get the WhipMix Pro? Thank you so much for all your help.

Anne

 

[labwoman]

I have the EP500 and I bought it used from a guy that was going out of business. It does all the pressing Empress, e-max and zirpress. If you can find one on e-bay or try craigslist you might get a great price. I found my on craigslist and it was under $1000 with a extra new muffle.

 

[emax sung]

I bought Whip mix Pro press 200 and pressed two centrals was beautiful.
finished crowns with pro press 200 as oven. also works great..

I used same parametres that Ivoclar recommended for press
and bake and finish.

very easy to use pro press 200 as pressing and oven.

 

[charles007]

Whats the pressing time with the 200 ...using emax LT, small ring.......Think my ep5000 is 18 minutes. Will get exact time I press later next week.

Charles

 

[Mike2]

The ep500 would work for 300g rings I did hundreds of PTM rings with at a large lab. You'll have to trace the tray as to center it but other than that, just check the parameters and for that much material. The only thing I'll say about the E.Max is the reaction layer we got earlier on with lithium disylicate was not acceptable. This was the demise of emp2. I am not sure but the material is the same with emax. This is where the press to completion is nice as it stops when the ring is pressed. This in turn stops the reaction layer from thickening. I was told the layer id the investment melting to the glass, due to the very high temps. My 2 cents?