• Welcome to Dental Lab Network
    1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

    creation porcelain build up

    Discussion in 'Porcelain' started by grabo, Apr 21, 2013.

    1. grabo

      grabo Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jul 2011
      Messages:
      109
      Likes Received:
      2
      I have been using creation for many years now but i battle with getting the correct translucent with the incisals ,i have tried mixing the SI incisals with S59, ive tried stacking incisal and enamel porcelain side by side , every conceivable way ive tried but i cant seem to get a consistent lively colour when i view in the mouth ,they tend to look like crown !
      Then on the other hand my emax look really nice and lifelike in the mouth.
      :confused:
      Any Creation guru out there that can give me some advice on what i can try ?
       
    2. martintay

      martintay Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jul 2012
      Messages:
      1,079
      Likes Received:
      75
      Location:
      UK
      Use more enamel mixed with CLO i believe.
       
    3. k2 Ceramic Studio
      Artistic

      k2 Ceramic Studio Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Aug 2009
      Messages:
      1,086
      Likes Received:
      37
      Location:
      Manchester UK
      We had the same problem with creation, I liked the stuff but as you said it can look dead in the mouth.
       
    4. Al.
      Yeehaw

      Al. Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Jul 2008
      Messages:
      3,440
      Likes Received:
      806
      Location:
      Kentucky
      My understanding is their enamels are on the opaque side and need a third layer of tran over the enamel.
      PIA IMO to use.
       
    5. Sydceramist

      Sydceramist Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Oct 2009
      Messages:
      102
      Likes Received:
      6
      are you using Creation CC whats the verdict on Creation Surprise any good? or to old...
       
    6. k2 Ceramic Studio
      Artistic

      k2 Ceramic Studio Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Aug 2009
      Messages:
      1,086
      Likes Received:
      37
      Location:
      Manchester UK
      Creation does have a get out of jail free card for those of us that like the way Ivoclar porcelain is so easy to use, its called transition dentine, very easy to use and you get nice results without banging your head against a wall. Its just like using Ivoclar classic porcelain, nice easy and simple. Just a bit off topic but GC are bringing out a TD as well. Could be fun.
       
    7. chickenlicken

      chickenlicken New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Mar 2013
      Messages:
      14
      Likes Received:
      0
      Location:
      UK
      I've worked with creation for around 14 years, unfortunately now using vita vm 13, and not a happy camper with it. Just been using a trial kit if GC Initial which is pretty much creation mark 2. And ivoclar been in today to drop off inline. You can achieve almost any result if you know and understand the porcelain. Have a look at the Jensen dental site and click on creation cc then click on library on the left side. It gives you a rundown on how to use it. The most critical thing with creation is the dentine cutback. If that's wrong you will always struggle, you generally need a bigger cutback than you have using ivoclar porcelains. For a basic crown this was my technique which got really great results: For light shade I used to snow cap the dentine mamelons with TI-2 before putting on 059 and SI powders places in vertical stripes. For darker shades use TI-3 then overlay with 059 and SI powders.For second bake use SI and HT powders near the neck laid horizontally, and I used 50/50 CLO and enamel. Let me know if you don't understand and I'll try and make it clearer! Lol
       
    8. chickenlicken

      chickenlicken New Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Mar 2013
      Messages:
      14
      Likes Received:
      0
      Location:
      UK
      You can also use small amounts of ivoclar classic impulse ceramics such as t-blue, t-grey with creation, the ct's are similar. OCD-orange from ivoclar classic is fantastic to use to correct a porcelain margin on the glaze fire. For a warmer Incisal colour, you can also use the creation HT powders to give a lovely warm effect.
      For the transpa dentine, a mix around 50/50 CLO and dentine-the only problem with this is that too thick a layer with start greying out. I guess you could use NT instead.
       
    9. Car 54
      No Mood

      Car 54 Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

      Joined:
      Nov 2007
      Messages:
      3,252
      Likes Received:
      782
      Location:
      USA

      Maybe to get the Transition dentines as k2 Ceramic Studio mentioned, and use those with less concern of value shifting. Then, use the standard Creation dentines as your, in place of, opacious dentine, and the transition dentines as your standard build up dentine, as in IMO the std. bodies are opacious enough on their own. Also, you will end up with less of a demarcation line if you happen to contour past your Inc into the transition dentine, compared to the more opaque dentines. I know that can be contrary to the Oral Design gurus who want more opacity in thinner layers, to be able to overlay more Inc, Trans. Inc, HTs etc over it, but it may be a easier route for less conspicuous molars.

      Another option for a self made transition dentine is to use SI's 1:1 with std. body.
       
    10. stanleyn

      stanleyn Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Dec 2011
      Messages:
      30
      Likes Received:
      1
      If i match the natural tooth A2. opaque: A2 ging,2/3 and mix of A3 with violet opaque modifier insisal 1/3 (complex gray) . Porcelain shoulder: SP28 and 23. For body i use California White/HT54 50/50. It will give the chroma and natural translucency,overlay with CL-O. Put PS-O/TI-2 50/50 on top of it for highlighter(caps tips) and overlay with TI-3/OT 50/50 for insisal, and hallow A2/57 50/50. When you sandwich PS-O/TI-2 in between CL-0 and incisal it bleed threw very nicely. Sorry no photos yet. Use 35mm. Have 8 roles of Kodak film left. After i use it up will have to go digital.:( This build up to match the natural teeth not the shade guide. It is very opalescent.
       
    11. stanleyn

      stanleyn Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Dec 2011
      Messages:
      30
      Likes Received:
      1
      they have some enamels to die for.TI-3,TI-2,OT,PS-0. Very opalescent and pearley at the same time, not gray at all in comparison to E.Max layering porcelains. Even S57 is not simply white, it has some opalescence to it and a hint of pink. Do not care for their dentin. Too opaque. Have tried few Transitional dentins did not like it ether, not enough chroma for my taste. For A2 I use HT54/California White 50/50, or for A3-HT53,HT-54,Cal.White,and A2 equal parts.
       
    12. howitsmade

      howitsmade Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Aug 2014
      Messages:
      30
      Likes Received:
      4
      ok, topic died over 4 years ago. But maybe you guys improved your skills with CC?? Do you have any other advice to reduce opaques and grayish standard dentine? I have a problem with it. I will try transition dentin. What is California white?
       
    13. KIM

      KIM Active Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2011
      Messages:
      234
      Likes Received:
      58
      Location:
      Connecticut
      California white is an extremely bleached dentin....
       
    14. howitsmade

      howitsmade Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Aug 2014
      Messages:
      30
      Likes Received:
      4
      So, BD-B0 will be the best for california white?
       
    15. charles007
      Grumpy

      charles007 Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Sep 2007
      Messages:
      3,582
      Likes Received:
      414
      Location:
      Fayetteville, NC
      California White was Creations first Bleached Dentin shade, don't know if they still make it.
      Now they have new bleached shades, BD-A, BD-B, BD-B0 dentins
       
      Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
    16. charles007
      Grumpy

      charles007 Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Sep 2007
      Messages:
      3,582
      Likes Received:
      414
      Location:
      Fayetteville, NC
      Creation ZI-CT 3d conversion chart for Zirconia:
      OM1 BL Frame/white Dentin BD-BO Enamel S-AB/PS1
      OM2 BL Frame/white Dentin BD-B S-AB/PS1
      OM3 BL Frame/white Dentin BD-A S-AB/PS1
      1M1 A1 Frame Dentin BDA/A1 57
      Using Creation CC, I would use white opaque if Creation doesn't make bleached opaques.
       
      Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
      • Useful Useful x 1
    17. KIM

      KIM Active Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Feb 2011
      Messages:
      234
      Likes Received:
      58
      Location:
      Connecticut
      So it depends on which Creation product we are speaking about (Zirconia, PFM, etc). There is a lot of symmetry across this line but not exact in every situation. Charles is right with what he says above regarding ZI CT. For what it's worth, there is also a shoulder porcelain "SP-AB" in ZI CT.
      As far as Creation CC goes, there is a bleach paste opaque "0-AB" as well as a "White". Hope this helps.
       
    18. charles007
      Grumpy

      charles007 Well-Known Member Full Member

      Joined:
      Sep 2007
      Messages:
      3,582
      Likes Received:
      414
      Location:
      Fayetteville, NC
      Thanks Kim ! Zirconia is a Wild animal as compared to metal ceramics in achieving good shades.
      Creation and InSync porcelains makes it a lot easier. :)
      Light bleached 3d shades are freak shades using zirconia, lol, harder to get the value right.
       
      Last edited: Jul 31, 2017

    Share This Page