Creating veneers using refractory method

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Clear Precision Dental

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I would like to create porcelain veneers. I've only done a few so I usually have to outsource all-porcelain work. I do not own a press, so I need to learn the "old" refractory method. I've gotten a few helpful hints on DLN but I am a "newbie" to being able to make any all-porcelain restorations in my lab, so I'm asking for a little spoon-feeding here.

I have IPS dSIGN porcelain for my fixed, so I would like to continue using it for the veneers, if at all possible [I heard it makes nice veneers]. I bought GC Orbit refractory and some refractory spacer (American Dental Supply).

Could you "talk" me through the steps (those of you who do refractory)? Photos if possible, ie. die fabrication, etc.

Thanks.
 
TheLabGuy

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Oh Wow, I'd love to show you because d.Sign makes some absolutely beautiful veneers. However, I press (Empress Esthetic) all my veneers. It's really simple actually, get a good refractory, degas, and you're off to the races......anybody still use the foil method? Man, that method made me have so many long nights in the lab, I loss hair because of the foil method....lol
 
Al.

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Thats a big question. First Its good to request your doc use a soft impression material to seperate your model with out breaking it.
Then you need to decide it you are going to seperate your model into dies or fire it solid. I mostly did it solid but sometimes I used reverse pins and made a base to seperate them where I needed them. If your doc dosent break the contacts then dont even try to seperate them into dies.
I got to go to bed now.
Al
 
Pronto

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We make a die stone model, ditch it finely and duplicate it with GC Polypour. The refactory model pulls out easily.
 
Clear Precision Dental

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Thanks.

Al's comment to keep as a solid model is helpful.

Pronto's also helpful. I could trim accessable margins and paint spacer (ie. for Variolink II),then duplicate.

Pour in refractory.

Degass.

Then soak die in distilled water to keep die from wicking off the liquid from the porcelain (this was from Al-I think).

Stack.

Give longer drying time (10 min) and fire at a slightly higher temp [these ideas came from a previous thread, comments by Al and sixonice].

Devest. 90% "saw-out" the remove remaining investment with round bur and lower pressure blast with glass beads (some of this from Al, previously).

Use "add-on" porcelain as needed (this was a previous thread),with proper support.

I have "gleaned" this much. Does this seem correct? [as a cookbook approach]

Thanks again for your input(s).
 
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Al.

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Thanks.

Al's comment to keep as a solid model is helpful.

Pronto's also helpful. I could trim accessable margins and paint spacer (ie. for Variolink II),then duplicate.

Pour in refractory.

Degass.

Then soak die in distilled water to keep die from wicking off the liquid from the porcelain (this was from Al-I think).

Stack.

Give longer drying time (10 min) and fire at a slightly higher temp [these ideas came from a previous thread, comments by Al and sixonice].

Devest. 90% "saw-out" the remove remaining investment with round bur and lower pressure blast with glass beads (some of this from Al, previously).

Use "add-on" porcelain as needed (this was a previous thread),with proper support.

I have "gleaned" this much. Does this seem correct? [as a cookbook approach]

Thanks again for your input(s).

Your first bake is a wash bake to seal the model.
In areas that have more space like wider interproximals you may need extra bakes or the porc will pull away and you may have voids underneith or in the tissue area.
With veneers on ref. models it is WAY better do several extra bakes rather than large bakes for multiple units (singles are a cake walk). You do not want to have to recontour and polish after you devest and it is a pain to contour over built veneers on a model. Try to build your interproximal contours,separation,embrasures rather try to cut them in. Be very exact with your buildup, you wont regret it.

I would not saw them but use a diamond disk. The exact same way you seperate dies that have margins that touch each other. After you glaze take your ultra thin diamond and score the glazed incisal embrasure (similar like a glass cutter does and cut our model from underneith to the gin embrasure and just very lightly score the porc. You created the two spots you want the break to start. Then continue to section it. If you have built your connections thin it will just snap or fall apart nicely. If not hold your breath and snap it. 99% of the time this worked perfectly for me but only on cases that were min preps where the dr had not broke the contact.
If the contact is broke you need to seperate the model in that area. You nont need several dies but only dies for veneers that have broke contacts.

When you snap the glazed veneers thay will often be irregular or one may be slighty over on to the other tooth that is where you use your low fusing add on or your place it type of material to make a temp die.
I just used a low fusing porc. I think you need to stay below 1350 F. I never used support for addons but you will for shade stains.

I always soaked my model for 1 or 2 min usually till it quit bubbling. Too long and you just shake it off and give it a minute.
If you build 6 units it takes some time so you may have to keep rewetting your model with your brush or set the botton in your water for a cuple of seconds. I dried it under the furnace till it turned white.
If you err on firing temp do it on the hot side if its under fired its a redo, a million small bubbles and milky or no trans.
You may not need a hotter temp but a longer hold time you have to do a few doxen of cases to get it figured out.
As far as die spacer the kind you put on refractory I used sucks, I used to releave the inside with a rounded tiped diamond for cement space.

If you have to mask out discolored teeth you may try to use a base of really white porc then put color on top of that.

I havnt revieved what I posted above so my grammer etc is prob terrible.
 
wwcanoer

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Here's another "how to" this came from a Winter's class years ago. This system is based on having access to Impregum impression material and auto mixer. I have used both the regular and soft, both seem to work fine. Good luck

picture.php
 
kcdt

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You could also consider platinum foil technique. Nailing margins is a little trickier, but time savings on the model work seems to be why most who employ it do so. Wash and stacking are almost identical, except for the moisture control.
 
Clear Precision Dental

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You guys are sooooo excellent. Thank you. Thanks, Al, for the description!
 
aidihra

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I never made a veneer using the refractory model, but I did make many models. I had porcelain pins and used some wire to attach them to the impression. I poured the refractory material and the stone base. The worst part was cutting the dies. The refractory material would eat my saw blades very quickly. I had a die stone model to check the finished product.
 
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