Cool Case In The Works

rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,405
Reaction score
3,288
In fact when I look at it closer,even though the value is the same,the bicuspids look higher in value than the rest.It's the darker tissue that gives more contrast .
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
817
Al, I'd bet if you called 'that' Doctor and asked, he'd say they looked gorgeous. His ring flash is so intense that it is actually washing out the color. It's a photography issue, not a color or ceramist problem. Tell him to buy a different camera (he can afford it :) ) or change the flash setting.
 
amadent

amadent

http://amadent.net/Home.p
Messages
829
Reaction score
1
Al, I'd bet if you called 'that' Doctor and asked, he'd say they looked gorgeous. His ring flash is so intense that it is actually washing out the color. It's a photography issue, not a color or ceramist problem. Tell him to buy a different camera (he can afford it :) ) or change the flash setting.

agree with you Rob on both points < im sure the doc would say case looks gorgeous and he can most definitly afford a new flash or camera or both.

imo creation will block the opaque better then any other porc on the market, you need only 1/2 mm or less of dentin on any restoration. but on the flip side if you use to much your restoratin looks dead- on lagre cases i will typically do a dentin only bake and adjust as i see needed after its fired to enssure my dentin is just the way i feel it needs to be

by the way_ Al thanks for sharing all your talent with us

Greg Amendola MDT
 
P

paulg100

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
42
"But they have that typical pfm high value look."

I think that kind of answers the question.. On the whole, This looks as good as anything i see in books and in presentations so i think maybe your being a bit to hard on yourself there Al.

How do you completely block light with metal..then have to mask it...then make it look vital/translucent again??

I reckon the flash is also making it look worse.

Maybe you could try applying a wash of complex grey stain over the crown after the first build as a light absorber and to knock down the opacity?? i would try that and see how it works out.
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,405
Reaction score
3,288
If there were natural teeth beside the restoration then yes you could say it's the flash.
 
Al.

Al.

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
904
Yeah I have thought about using trans blue over the dentin at the gin 1/3 on the light A shades.

I would love to see a test where somebody made 5 different crowns using 5 different porc.

Here is a case for comparison.

The 2 lower molars are pfms. Shade B1 Inline 4 powders on white gold 40%.

The uppers 4 #2-5 are emax BL3. (She wanted white up there) With only minimal layering on the entire facial. I pressed them full contour to the edges of the cusp tips and scooped out the facial.


ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dci.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dcf.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dch.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dce.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dci.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dcf.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dch.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_dce.jpg
 
amadent

amadent

http://amadent.net/Home.p
Messages
829
Reaction score
1
very hard comparision due to difference in shade and the light transmission of pfms and emax


Greg Amendola MDT
 
D

DeVreugd

New Member
Messages
224
Reaction score
4
Yeah this Dr is in Florida.

Im wondering If I should opaque the gin 1/3 with C or D range opaques for A range shade requests?

Al,
See if they will take a value shade for you. As well, a chroma shade. I almost never see the value & chroma shade the same in natural teeth. I will always opaque it with the value shade and build with the chroma shade. With d.Sign, I will always go a shade or two darker at the margins if building to a porc/metal margin. Hope this helps. I agree with another post, you are being way to hard on yourself!! :)

Russ
 
Al.

Al.

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
904
Al,
See if they will take a value shade for you. As well, a chroma shade. I almost never see the value & chroma shade the same in natural teeth. I will always opaque it with the value shade and build with the chroma shade. With d.Sign, I will always go a shade or two darker at the margins if building to a porc/metal margin. Hope this helps. I agree with another post, you are being way to hard on yourself!! :)

Russ

Now that is very intresting.

So you may have a D2 value but a A2 chroma so you opaque D2 but layer A2.

I always do use the intensive incisal opaque on the tips for anteriors.

I know some will say why waste your time with pfms, they are dead, but I dont see that at all. The more implant and restorative type dentistry I do the more my pfms increase.

Im still doing alot of anterior pfms, bridges and bruxers where they want metal linguals and crowns on metal posts and metal implant abutments.

Thanks, Al
 
D

DeVreugd

New Member
Messages
224
Reaction score
4
Now that is very intresting.

So you may have a D2 value but a A2 chroma so you opaque D2 but layer A2.

Al,

Exactly !
When we think about it, light passes through the trans incisal & dentin, hits the opaque and passes back out to the eye of the observer. This has the greatest influence on what we see as the value.

Russ
 
P

paulg100

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
42
Another thing i wanted to add on this,

When you see some of the work on metal from the greats out there, one thing that seems common is HUGE butt margins, like a third of the way up the tooth.

Maybe that technique is one of the keys to getting the kind of results your looking for Al, im sure they wouldnt go to those lengths if there was another way, what a pain in the arse that would be.

Thankfully im hardly using metal much anymore so i dont have to stuggle with these tricks so much but like you say, its harder getting away from it for larger implant cases....Although having said that all the things you mention your using metal for im doing in zirconia, including zirconia backings.

Screw retained frames is where metal really comes into its own for me, other wise zirconia and emax now.
 
Last edited:
M

MeridianDental

New Member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
beautiful case Al. Your porcelain work is excellent. Id like to send some cases to you. Keep up the good work
 
NicelyMKV

NicelyMKV

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,557
Reaction score
262
I always have problems with my accounts missing the value. Probably why Emax HT works out so well for me. They will pick A1 for example. Too bright. I go see the patient and it is A hue with A1 chroma but instead of a TI-1 incisal(Ivoclar inline) it is a TI-2 or even a TI-2.5.

This is interesting. So if I had an A2 chroma with a D2 value, I have been opaquing and building A2 but using TI-3 incisal. Sounds like I have been attacking it incorrectly...
 
Edy

Edy

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
550
Reaction score
6
The internal staining is done and ready for the 3rd and final tooth form build and bake.

Trans incisal 1 OE1 and OE4

ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z27.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z28.jpg

Ready for 4th bake. Ist tissue and teeth form touch ups.

Gin 4 and G4/OE4 mixed 50/50

ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z29.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z30.jpg
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z31.jpg

Ready for the 5th and final build.

ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z32.jpg

Ok the 5th and final bake.
Now the work is done and it is ready to be slicked up and glazed.
Till now I have done minimal grinding. Only thining the edges after the first bake and adjusting the occlusion.

ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z33.jpg

here u say u use incisal 1 , OE1 and OE4 , what u put each of them exactly ? the incisal on the incisal and the OE on mesial and distal ?
ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z27.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z28.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z29.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z30.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z31.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z32.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z33.jpg
 
cheadlemick

cheadlemick

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
703
Reaction score
41
Yeah this Dr is in Florida.

Im wondering If I should opaque the gin 1/3 with C or D range opaques for A range shade requests?

Al That is superb! dont twat around with little bits of this and that, it wont make too much difference, your work is spot on!
 
C

Crownu2

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Great work Al thanks for posting, and making the time!....
 
D

dentcre

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
252
Reaction score
22
its always nice to see AL'S work , i have learn a lot from his pictures,
one question Al... with all those firings have you ever had any gasing problems fro the metal? what metal did you use on this case anyways?

thanks !
 

Similar threads

sidesh0wb0b
Replies
6
Views
656
Doris A
Doris A
sidesh0wb0b
Replies
35
Views
2K
Philophil5
P
Pronto
Replies
11
Views
623
rkm rdt
rkm rdt
D
Replies
2
Views
270
KingGhidorah
KingGhidorah
CatamountRob
Replies
6
Views
777
bigj1972
bigj1972
Top Bottom