Help Wanted CONTRACT DESIGNERS

[FrontHunter]

quit talking and start chalking!

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

do yourself a favor, write a business plan. do things the right way from the start.
you will have a much better chance at making it work
www.NxLevel.org has some amazing startup workbooks, well worth the write off and up front cost to getting it established

 

[Mrs.galfriday]

ID LOVE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THIS TOPIC. BUMP...

SO

Answer This... What are your thoughts on a website that you could go sign up for and it was similar to facebook, or upwork or fiver ect. You can load some examples of your work and make an about me page and sell yourself to labs and doctors and doctors could go here and find technicians who are willing to design and possibly nest as well. Then send the file back and the website would have a sever built in that is hippa compliant and the doctor simply would load a scan into your que. You grab the intraoral scan or desktop scan design it, throw it back into the server and the client is automatically billed by the website and you get the money placed in your account at the end of every week.... The rules are simple, there is a minimum charge of 5$ per unit and you must use our file exchange server/system and billing software ect. You can advertise or promote a basic design a premium design and then also have different prices for different turn around times, example a 30 min, a 4 hour, an 8 hour, ect. You can offer add on services like one free change per design at the request of the client or for a fee you can allow the doctor and if needed or wanted the patient screensharing while you design thier smile/crown. You would be free to go out and market to dentists, however you must run it all through the website, which has advantages for all involved in my mind, First the dentist must have a valid Credit Card on file to submit a scan or the case will not be sent. Also the website will keep track of all your finances and case records as well. The website would also offer the software to buy or to rent and you can pick whatever ones you would like. This could be something you simply do 1 or two times per week or you could do it for a part-time or a full time job. The other benefit of using this site would be the marketing and traffic driven to the website, you get your services out infront of doctors who just bought an intraoral and not sure what to do next and like i said before, they have to pay the same second they send the file if not they dont get the design. There would also be prefered milling centers or labs that you could send the finished file to for milling and finishing ect. The possibilities are endless. But ultimately the doctors are starting to look at buying small mills when they buy an IO scanner .....think dwx 50 and such and they dont have time to mess with it at all. Just have the assistant order some discs and send you the serial codes on them, they will go into the software / website and you just get off work go grab your scans, design, look at the doctors stock of discs/ consumables, nest the units, send them back and the dental assistant or offfice girl goes and grabs the right number disc or block and throws it in the mill wam bam, the doctor either has the assistant spray glaze all the posteriors or he goes in for an hour on the weekend and does some staining and glazing. Obviously this could be done at so many levels but the rules would be simple, dont send files without going through the server, and you cant go less than 5$ a unit. I mean you could do a live design and charge the doc 50$ for the unit and be done in 10 mins and his life is basically a little bit of staining and glazing, and as long as you help him get his mill calibrated to your design settings and get the contacts and occlusion close he has no model to deal with and if he wants one it gets sent out for printing.

SO BEFORE YOUR REPLY THAT THIS IS ALREADY OUT THERE, AND SAY CROWN BOX ALREADY DOES THIS AND THAT THERE IS NO POINT TO IT, I WANT TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION BECAUSE YES I KNOW THERE IS FULL CONTOUR OUT THERE AKA DROPDENTAL.COM AND FULLCONTOURDENTAL.COM BUT THEY DONT SERVICE DOCTORS AND THEY DONT ALLOW THE CLIENT TO TALK TO THE DESIGNER!!!!! THIS IS A WAY TO GIVE DOCTORS A TAYLOR MADE SERVICE AND ULTIMATELY THE PATIENT A BETTER PRODUCT. IT WOULD BE FREE TO SIGN UP AND LITERALLY WOULD BE ALMOST IDENTICAL TO FACEBOOK MIXED WITH A LITTLE DROP DENTAL AND AMAZON AND EBAY.... DOCTORS COULD POST CASES FOR PEOPLE TO BID ON OR EVEN SUBMIT THE DESIGN AND HE GETS TO PICK THE BEST DESIGN ECT... (AGAIN DONT FREAK OUT THESE ARE ALL JUST THOUGHTS AND BRAINSTORMING) BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT A PATIENT AND DOC WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS SITUATION BELOW POSSIBLE....

SO THE DOCTOR HAS A PATIENT THAT IS HAVING A FULL MOUTH OR AT MINIMUM 4-8 ANTERIORS DONE FOR COSMETIC REASONS. SO THE DOCTOR HAS THE PATIENT COME IN AND ALL THEY DO IS A 5 MINUTE SCAN OF THE PATIENTS MOUTH, NO SHOTS NO PREPING NO NOTHING, JUST A SCAN, HE SENDS IT TO HIS FAVORITE CONTRACT PROCESSOR AND THEN YOU GRAB THE SCAN DESIGN THE PROVISIONALS WITH THE MARGINS JUST BARELY SUB G OR RIGHT AT THE GING. CREST THEN JUST LET THE DESIGN SIT UNTILL THE PATIENT IS RESCHEDULED FOR PREPPING. SO THE PATIENT COMES BACK IN AND YOU COULD EVEN HAVE THE DOC MILL OUT A COUPLE OF DIAGNOSTIC MODELS TO SELL THE PATIENT ON ACCEPTING THE TREATMENT PLAN. JUST LIKE A BEFORE AND AFTER DIAGNOSTIC THAT WE WAX OR USED TO WAX AND MAKE A TEMP STINT WITH. THEN THE DOCTOR STARTS TO PREP, AND REMEMBER YOU HAVE ALREADY DESIGNED THE WHOLE CASE AND EVERY UNIT ALREADY SO WHEN HES DONE PREPING ALL YOU DO IS GO IN TO THE SCAN MARK THE FRESHLY CUT MARGINS AND THEN PULL YOUR DESIGN THAT YOU ALREADY DID WITH THE PREOP SCAN IN AND MESH IT TO THE NEW MARGINS. DO SOME MINOR TWEAKS, SEND THE NESTED FILE TO THE DOC AND HE CAN GRAB A MULTILAYERED/MULTISHADED pmma DISK PUT IT IN THE MACHINE AND PUSH START. THE TEMPS TAKE ABOUT 15 TO 20 MINS EACH TO MILL OUT. THE PATIENT STAYS IN THE CHAIR WATCHES A MOVIE AND THEN .................

BAM!!!!!!!!!! THE DOC CAN CUT OUT THE UNITS, POLISH THEM, MAYBE LIGHTCURE GLAZE THEM TO ADD SOME CHARACTER ECT. AND THE PATIENT HAS GORGEOUS, STRONG, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY INDIVIDUAL TEMPS, SO THAT THE PERIODONTAL LIGAMANTS ARE FREE TO MOVE AROUND WHILE THE PATIENT IS CHEWING ECT.....THE PATIENT WEARS THEM FOR A WEEK OR SO DEPENDING ON IF THERE IS ANY CROWN LENGTHENING OR ANY NEED TO OPEN THE BITE UP AND GIVE THE PATIENT TIME TO LET THIER BODY AND MOUTH ADJUST TO THE NEW OCCLUSION. THEN THEY COME BACK IN AND GIVE THE DOCTOR FEEDBACK ON WHAT THEY LIKE AND DONT LIKE, (OR JUST CALL) THEN YOU MAKE SOME MINOR CHANGES IF THE PATIENT OR DOCTOR WANTS AND YOU CAN HAVE THE CROWNS DONE AS SOON AS LATER THAT DAY OR THE NEXT. ECT.


SOOOO here is the big thing that sucks about getting any cosmetic work done as a patient. First its usually painfull (at least for me because i burn off anasesia like its gas on a fire, also having 6 or 8 units made into temps by the doctor injecting lightcure or dualcure temp material into a siltec matrix or temp stint made with lab putty IS THE WORST FEELING EVER!!! imagine not having your teeth able to move freely while you chew and your pario ligaments are all splinted togeather....(it sucks and people usually break temps cause of this reason exactly.

Also the PMMA is so good now that you can polish it in one minute and it looks just as good as a monolithic lisi pressed crown. and the patient gets awesome temps that are perfectly sealed at the margin and can be worn long term, they look great and they most importantly feel amazing.

THIS IS JUST ONE SCENERIO THAT YOU COULD CHARGE A PREMIUM FOR AND PATIENTS WOULD PAY IT AND SO WOULD DOCS.

THIS IS WHERE WE ARE HEADING AND A WEBSITE AND SERVICE LIKE THIS COULD BE SUCH A GREAT THING FOR ALL OF US. DESIGN AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE AS YOU WANT AND CHARGE WHAT YOU WANT AND NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTTING PAID OR CALLING A CLIENT ASKING TO PAY THIER BILL......


SO RIP IT TO SHREDS OR LET ME KNOW ANYTHING, BECAUSE I ALREADY HAVE IT BUILT, I HAVE THE COMPANY SET UP AND I WANT TO SEE THE RESPONSE...WOULD YOU SIGN UP? WOULD YOU MAKE ALL YOUR DESIGNERS IN YOUR LAB SIGN UP AND DO THE WORK WHILE THEY ARE CLOCKED IN AT YOUR LAB AND ALLOW THEM TO DO IT ON THE SIDE AS WELL..??????

IM SO CLOSE TO LAUNCHING THIS BUT I JUST WANT TO FEEL OUT THE MARKET TO SEE WHO WOULD DO WHAT AND HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD SIGN UP AND HOW OFTEN THEY WOULD GO TO DOCS OFFICES AND TRY TO GET NEW WORK. THINK ABOUT THIS PART TOO. YOU CAN RENT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE COMPANY/WEBSITE IF YOU DONT WANT TO BUY IT, ALSO YOU CAN OFFER A PERSONALIZED SERVICE THAT IS UNIQE TO WHAT YOU THINK DOCS NEED.

IM SURE LAB OWNERS WILL LASH OUT ON THIS BUT YOU CAN USE AND BENEFIT FROM IT TOO. SERIOUSLY THE RISE OF THE MACHINES HAS BEEN GREAT BUT MOST DENTISTS WILL AGREE THAT THEY HAVE SEEN A MAJOR SHIFT IN CONSISTANTCY IN THE WORK THEY GET BACK BECAUSE ALL DESIGNERS ARE DIFFERENT AND ALL LABS USE DIFFERENT LIBRARIES, AS WELL AS TECHS AND DESIGNERS WITHIN THE LAB ITSELF.

ANOTHER BENEFIT, STORAGE AND FILE LOADING SPEED. THIS IS ALL CLOUD BASED SO ALL YOUR WORK AND DESIGNS AND SCANS AND ACCOUNTING IS SAFE IN THE CLOUD. IM JUST THINKING HOW EASY DOING YOUR TAXES WOULD BE AT THE END OF THE YEAR WITH HAVING ALL THE FINACIALS RIGHT THERE AND ALL YOUR COSTS ECT.

IM EVEN LOOKING FOR PARTNERS ON THIS AND WOULD LOVE TO TALK ON THE PHONE OR IN PERSON ANYTIME BUT COMMENT AWAY!

5 dollar minimum per unit? 5 minutes for each design? I thought the going minimum was $29.00.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

5 dollar minimum per unit? 5 minutes for each design? I thought to going minimum was $29.00.

im not doing a damn thing for $5.
i can go do mindless flipping of burgers all day for far more, AND screw up every order and still demand $15/hr. no effing way am i dropping prices here ever EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR again!

 

[rkm rdt]

do you want fries with that?

 

[PRO ARTS DL]

The problem with Upwork, Fiv.er, etc (from our point of view) is that it's full of "freelancers" from third world countries willing to do the work for bottom price; and that's OK for them since even this low prices surpass the minimum wages from their country.

If you say the lowest price will be $5 dollars per crown, then I would think you're setting the price for everyone. There's people willing to do the work for that or even less, whether they are good or bad designers. If you let people decide their prices, then the price will be even lower. Whether they are good or bad designers, I'm sure there's good designers/technicians from other countries willing to do the work for less.

There are horror stories from Upwork such as clients not paying, pulling out when they have part of the work, claiming they did not receive anything or saying the job was just not good. Upwork always sides with the customer (obviously) whether they are right or wrong (PayPal as another example). I've read of people having thousands of dollars on their account waiting to be transferred to them, then there's an error or a customer complains, and all the funds are frozen, account cancelled, and gone.

Maybe there's a way to do this right but I have my doubts following a model such as Upwork would be good for us.

Just my opinion.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

youve touched on exactly the problems that have been raised and proposed to be addressed with this new website.

i still say its better to hire a full time in house technician, if you are a dentist looking to make your own units, and pay them an adequate salary.

most dentist would probably agree.

but for labs who need to contract work out so they can specialize in other things, this would work nicely. say you want to specialize in pfm, you can contract out all your digital cases and remain connected to those docs, while maintaining specialization.

and any way you want to slice that cake you can. specialize in emax, send everything else out through the service.

specialize in zirc, send out gold

specialize in milling, send every case out for scan design.

instead of be a 200 person operation, be 4 or 5. or 1 or 2.

 

[ConCAD]

I have been waiting for something like this to pop up!! I am the designer that just plain fits for this scenario. I already do freelance graphic design work on the side through Upwork...yes the bidding sucks and getting burned by clients is painfully real and common.

My wife and I want to have some freedom in where we live and raise our son. And so the ability to put my skills to work with out having to put down roots somewhere or simply being able to work on my schedule is HUGE!

I love the minimum price concept, I do also agree with what has been stated above. I do not want to provide this service directly to doctors, if that is how the site is setup I would do it, but I would t like it. Keep in mind that each designer is self employed at that point and every interaction/moment that isn't pumping out designs is losing money for everyone. Labs should always exist as a filter in my mind. Docs specialize in patient care, Labs specialize in the fabrication, Designers focus on designs.

Sign me up now!

And in the mean time if anyone really does need a US based remote designer to help with overflow... Let's talk!

 

[eyeloveteeth]

the problem with these sort of set up is just like now having your own in-house python script or any other custom programmer. Generically you should be fine once you have the experience - specifically, unless you worked for me 100% how are you going to learn what I want? So ultimately the relationship turns sour unless you spend more than the normal amount of time to learn what I want - which is a loss to yourself.

In the programming and marketing world where things are less one of specific, I can agree 100% - the ones that are claiming it's contact + occlusion + margins ~ i'm sorry but that's just given - slope of contour, how contour looks, broad contact design based on account, texture/shape...i mean there's quite a bit that is not taken into account.


Either way, i'm sure there will be some sort of niche to fill. best of luck with this concept!

 

[Eric Carmelo Burgio]

Who is using or hiring techs to design remotely and how are you finding them?

Do you have to buy them a computer and a dongle.?

I know of full contour. Does anyone have a recommendation for who i could talk to about how to go about finding good deaigners for overflow....I have seen some bad designs from other companies so I don't want to have to redo the designs they send me back.

This may be in the wrong section..if so I'm sorry. Maybe it's more of a business idea than a help wanted.

But I guess I do need help.

Hello, honestly I think I have you were looking for one and it's a once and a life time options for you. I am a very humbly seasoned cad cam and implant tech, who studied 2 years of technology and in the past 10-12 years I have helped innovative digital dentistry from day one. I truly believe I have some amazing solutions for what you are trying to achieve that will definitely blow your mind. I can't give you to much info at the moment but I would like to give you a little bit more of my back round, I'm currently living in OC California working as the production manager for a very high end esthetic laboratory. Before that I managed the cad cam and implants department from a huge lab, as we as designed for other labs such as Winter dental and also DSG Yankee arts doing full mouth restoration on implants back 8 years ago ( I have plenty of photos portfolios and references if you would like to look into that) I will schedule for jobs by the University of Harvard med, Tuffs university, Connecticut, and others like University of Illinois. Lastly without trying to overwhelm you I have been offered jobs at Straumann, Nobel, Biomet and who's the work goodbye is a challenge because I hated working with them as a customer and I felt what I can bring to the table would benefit them in their customers to help them grow in a new direction. In my first year who is awarded clove customer service representative this year and also rookie of the year doing all there 3shape technical support; design training, problem solving, and remote design training in order complete training and then I was promoted to the production lead overseeing the entire encode design team. I do apologize for the long message I just thought this detail would be beneficial for you and me to reach further conversation I also have some other things that I've left out either very exciting to you with the fact that I have my own three shape with a license, scanner and a network and can sign for anywhere and anytime and my designs a hold a quality standard to myself that I will never go below between abutment design, full contour design, copings, anatomical cutbacks etc. I can do it all and I will make sure your and your team will notice a different instantly, picking the next person in line job evening easer due to less adjusting. I also wanted to mention that I specialize in full mouth restorations upper and lower implants included if needed and I also will be able to create my own anatomical anatomy libraries custom to each laboratory I work with that stand out more than anyone ever see specially for Contor crowns. I would be happy to send you some photos of real cases
work so you can review. And hope to hear back from you! Sorry for the late message I'm on the West Coast I just wanted to get this message off to you before I forgot I hope you have a wonderful morning hope to hear back from you if not have a great day! For me by many connections can help you in your business succeed because that is my goal and a pleasure to write this message to you and I hope to hear back take care!

Thanks,
E. Carmelo Burgio ( Certified DentalTech) [email protected]
C: (714) 882-1801

 

[Eric Carmelo Burgio]

Thanks,
E. Carmelo Burgio ( Certified DentalTech)
[email protected]
C: (714) 882-1801[/QUOTE]

The correct email is actually,
[email protected]
One needing help in this type of area of expertise you can call my cell or email me and I'll be happy to help I have all the cancan quick needed as well as a full functioning service lab faster around times I can do pretty much anything start to finish if needed, highest quality and can send photos of work cases done in the last 10 years always pushing the limits of digital dentistry since day one!

 

[R1C2UOK]

realistically youd never want to do that.

5 mins per unit is no guarantee of quality. anyone worthy of 96 units of work per day wouldn't do 96 units a day no matter how much you paid them. juggling the specific instructions for every case, like ensuring specific manufacturing instructions - metal lingual band, metal island, denture rests, attachment planning, veneers need to communicate photos, etc etc, is nice to say you can do it but in reality it will take 12 hours to do 12 units sometimes, due to improper scanning, failed unit manufacturing, or disagreements between designer and ceramist.

ceramists are a fickle bunch, and need to hold the hand of every designer until satisfactory production is acheived, and this can take months if the ceramist is wishywashy.

i can do a single in under 4 minutes if all the stars lign up, and theres a perfect margin, adequate clearance, no special instructions, and neighboring anatomy is easy to copy. otherwise 4 minutes is about how long it will take to decide which library will take the least modifications to get a result that would look natural, in accordance with the bite, the neighboring dentition, and the type of material being used.

8 dollars is what you pay if your lab is run by an accounting firm hoping to figure out how to make more profit by increasing volume. and theyd negotiate for 5 dollars instead, given the volume.

I usually Try to take 10 min per unit and yes I do pretty well with 8 per unit and I am also turning work away because I don't want to rush any designs. 3shape tells the designers to just crowd the units together to make the bridge. How ridiculous, also with an outsider there is no unemployment ins or workmans comp ins. I have 37 years experience as a ceramist. How is your new hires doing for you??

 

[Rex Kramer]

The problem with Upwork, Fiv.er, etc (from our point of view) is that it's full of "freelancers" from third world countries willing to do the work for bottom price; and that's OK for them since even this low prices surpass the minimum wages from their country.

If you say the lowest price will be $5 dollars per crown, then I would think you're setting the price for everyone. There's people willing to do the work for that or even less, whether they are good or bad designers. If you let people decide their prices, then the price will be even lower. Whether they are good or bad designers, I'm sure there's good designers/technicians from other countries willing to do the work for less.

There are horror stories from Upwork such as clients not paying, pulling out when they have part of the work, claiming they did not receive anything or saying the job was just not good. Upwork always sides with the customer (obviously) whether they are right or wrong (PayPal as another example). I've read of people having thousands of dollars on their account waiting to be transferred to them, then there's an error or a customer complains, and all the funds are frozen, account cancelled, and gone.

Maybe there's a way to do this right but I have my doubts following a model such as Upwork would be good for us.

Just my opinion.

Interesting problem, where this is being addressed is using Bitcoin technology via Blockchains and Smart contracts. Smart contracts eliminate 3rd partys and you can safely deal directly with the client/supplier and not worry about getting paid. Many cyrptocurrencies are working on this, one of the current leaders is https://www.ethereum.org/ public forums at https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/ another is https://www.dash.org/ forums:https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/ Blockchain technology now has support in industry and banking. Great article/primer here: What Is Blockchain and How Will It Change Your Life?

Now, about designing. Im a one man operation with both Exocad and Nobelprocera 1. Being a remote design center would be a great way for me to "retire" I take alot longer than 5 min to design however. I never use any of the auto features I adjust everything manually until it is perfect in my eye. The results I get from Scotty require very minimal bench time to finish as a result, No funky ass auto contacts-occlusion which I tried with CAP one time and it looked like crap but it was fast and yea there are dentists that will by this cheap. Not for me.

 

[Jonathan King]

Who is using or hiring techs to design remotely and how are you finding them?

Do you have to buy them a computer and a dongle.?

I know of full contour. Does anyone have a recommendation for who i could talk to about how to go about finding good deaigners for overflow....I have seen some bad designs from other companies so I don't want to have to redo the designs they send me back.

This may be in the wrong section..if so I'm sorry. Maybe it's more of a business idea than a help wanted.

But I guess I do need help.

If you are still looking for a designer, please contact me: [email protected]

 

[Tom Mappin]

FrontHunter, I've read this thread and it is very interesting. I'm a tech with 40+ years of experience and looking for employment at present. I spent the last three years working in a bigger lab which had their fair share of inadequate and unacceptable designs from the big outsources. I have been contemplating hanging a shingle again and doing nothing but remote design work. In my experience $5 per design (.stl file) is appropriate. For a milled crown, yes, approximately $29 would be the going minimum.

I would welcome the opportunity to discuss any aspect of this topic with you.

[email protected]

 

[2thm8kr]

In my experience $5 per design (.stl file) is appropriate

That's for offshore dental inexperienced gamer's. Minimum should be at least double that for experienced tech designing.

 

[Affinity]

You get what you pay for. I think Id go work in china before staring at a screen all day designing crowns for $5

 

[noaddhere1]

Hi. My name Jacob Farber. I'm a technician of 30 years and last 5 of them on 3Shape.

I’ve sold my lab in Miami last year and live in Europe now, but retirement is not my cup of tea I'm only 51.

So I set up a small design studio and take orders from US labs.

If you consider remote designer, I'm at your service.


All cases designed overnight and shared via dropbox.

If you interested please contact me. References available upon request.

FB - Jacob Farber where you can see my cases

US number (305) 600-2056 (Skype)

Viber and WhatsApp +17863578322

 

[noaddhere1]

FrontHunter, I've posted above before reading the whole conversation. I've had this idea for quiet some time now. Great thinking!!!! Its an Uber platform for our field. I want to talk about it (support, partnership, investor),please call me viber or whatsapp +17863578322
Jacob