Combining different manufacturing process

McTeeth

McTeeth

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Hey guys,

I am attempting to start combining custom abutments with Emax CAD so I can utilize 1-step full digital workflow. For example, genuine Nobel Active with a Core3D screw-retained Emax CAD.

How have you guys found combining different manufacturing CAMs when designing 1-step CAD? Is it a trial and error thing until find the right recipe for each manufacturing combo? Is it a lost cause?

Thanks!
 
CoolHandLuke

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this is quite difficult to do correctly but in your case its pretty straightforward.

you need to consider milling. when doing a zirconia abutment, often the sprues for it are placed at or above the margin, you want to eliminate that and place them M-D Sub G. so this 1-step thing really only works on abutments with that much room sub g for the sprue.

otherwise your margin will never be right and it will be a waste of time.
 
McTeeth

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this is quite difficult to do correctly but in your case its pretty straightforward.

you need to consider milling. when doing a zirconia abutment, often the sprues for it are placed at or above the margin, you want to eliminate that and place them M-D Sub G. so this 1-step thing really only works on abutments with that much room sub g for the sprue.

otherwise your margin will never be right and it will be a waste of time.


Thanks for reply.

Its mostly going to be just single units. Custom Ti/Zir from their authentic milling centres. Core(BioHorizons) Nobel, Straumann, Dentsply/Atlantis. Combined with an Emax CAD or Zirconia (in-house mill). Just trying to get away from milling wax and press for implants and scanning in abutments... If I can nail it
 
CoolHandLuke

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with titanium its much easier to go 1-step. no horizontal spruing.
 
JohnWilson

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I do split files for all my abutments. My crowns are waiting in the pan for all my abutments I send to Nobel to return.

Works perfect for us to do local milling on their abutments the designs match perfectly to the CAD.
 
McTeeth

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I do split files for all my abutments. My crowns are waiting in the pan for all my abutments I send to Nobel to return.

Works perfect for us to do local milling on their abutments the designs match perfectly to the CAD.

Do you find a difference in Ti vs Zir abutments from Nobel? Also, are you milling Emax too or just zirconia crown, if so, is it the same die interface setting?

thx
 
Sevan P

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Yes it can be done, just have to make sure the part of the case that is going out to the MFG has the right process and your in house file will not go to the MFG at all. I do this a lot with Argen Ti abutmetns and bruxirs, and straumann nobel and others. So far every crown dropped right in. Sometime you might have to adjust the sharp ends of the abutments especially on anterior.
 
McTeeth

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Yes it can be done, just have to make sure the part of the case that is going out to the MFG has the right process and your in house file will not go to the MFG at all. I do this a lot with Argen Ti abutmetns and bruxirs, and straumann nobel and others. So far every crown dropped right in. Sometime you might have to adjust the sharp ends of the abutments especially on anterior.


I can mill zirconia in-house, but I was wanting to try Emax CAD which I would have to outsource. So I was curious if anyone has had any luck outsourcing milled emax on top of a outsourced genuine abutment. Nobel doesn't mill Emax anymore
 
McTeeth

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Yes it can be done, just have to make sure the part of the case that is going out to the MFG has the right process and your in house file will not go to the MFG at all. I do this a lot with Argen Ti abutmetns and bruxirs, and straumann nobel and others. So far every crown dropped right in. Sometime you might have to adjust the sharp ends of the abutments especially on anterior.

Attempt #1 Core3D BioHorizons custom Ti abutment w/ in-house FZ...fit was terrible (I use Core3D in Canada since its an authorized mill centre for BioHorizons)
Attempt #2 Nobel Active custom Zir abutment w/ Core3D Emax screw-retained. Fit was ok, looks promising to dial in (Use Core3D for Screw-retained Emax, because they can do it)

Is there different finishes that milling centres use for their Ti custom abutments. Should I be requesting anything when sending off a custom Ti?

Thx
 
JohnWilson

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You have to realize with EMAX your drill compensation is going to effect fit over any abutment. You can compensate for this in your design by using your 2d cross section tool/tape measure tool over the top of the abutment and manage this. It will allow you to set your top cap radius and your margin radius to match the smallest bur they use to mill. The use of a flat index anti rotational feature sounds good but the 90* corners are getting compensated for in the cam to eliminate areas the bur can not get too thus making things not as precise anyhow.

The best fitting crowns will be a crown your produce with no drill comp on and a printed pattern then pressed but in all honesty its complete over kill for a properly designed case.
 
McTeeth

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You have to realize with EMAX your drill compensation is going to effect fit over any abutment. You can compensate for this in your design by using your 2d cross section tool/tape measure tool over the top of the abutment and manage this. It will allow you to set your top cap radius and your margin radius to match the smallest bur they use to mill. The use of a flat index anti rotational feature sounds good but the 90* corners are getting compensated for in the cam to eliminate areas the bur can not get too thus making things not as precise anyhow.

The best fitting crowns will be a crown your produce with no drill comp on and a printed pattern then pressed but in all honesty its complete over kill for a properly designed case.

Sounds good. As long as I know people are doing this workflow successfully. Thx for the replies :)
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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If you design the split file correctly, you won't have issues. When you start building lots of anatomy into the custom abutment, you increase the chance of a less desirable fit. I also found that the fit differs from each abutment manufacturer. We like to send our designs to the original manufacturer and they all have different machining Processes.
For example, atlantis abutments always have that horizontal Knurling. But if Kent at Vulcan (Bio Horizons) mills your Ti abutment the Knurling is vertical. If you send it to Nobel, there is none. Just different machines and their different milling processes, because of this you really have to dial in and adjust for the manufacturer. Because of this, I rescan the abutments and mill my substructure. This is just easier for me.
 
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McTeeth

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Dentist decided on a gap, if anyone was wondering
 
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