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CDT..to be, or not to be (from ortho forum)

Discussion in 'CDT' started by Inman Labs, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    I know many technicians better than me that are not CDTs.
    And I know there are problems with the process.

    BUT...I really believe that there must be a certification, a way to separate the people who go into this as a trade from those who go into it as a profession.

    There is no one on this site who is not a professional, you wouldn't waste your time!

    If you feel the system is broken...let's fix it
    If you don't have time to help fix it ...you are in denial.

    This is my passion button and I promise to help any of you complete the process to become a CDT. I promise any of you to take up your concerns with the NBC.

    Mike help me, start with your feelings...you are one of them that are certainly a better tech than me.

    Don
  2. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    As Cade knows, it can become a way for the people in charge to get some cash.
    It should be a way to help assure that a tech in a given field is competent. No problem there with me. If required to become a CDT, I would do it.
    Still, when something becomes regulated, it always seems to be that to much money is involved. If not at first, then later on. It should not be oppressive, tough thing to do. When bucks are involved, it gets messy.
    Then you can not go into the trade, or profesion, without it.
    Broken system??? More like a growing system.
    No time to fix it?? That's right. I'm very busy.
    Denial???
    Those 2 questions are like..."Have you stopped beating your wife??".

    Stop with the BS about who is the better tech.
    For as long as I have been in the business, the main thing I here is..."if my work is not good enough in some way, the market will decide". " I don't need to be "certified" by anyone. I know my work is good.
    I heard that from the guy I worked for and many other lab owners in L.A.
    You want to fix it?? Go ahead. I am around. I may or may not have time.

    How about while your at it, you fix the issue of GPs pretending to be Orthodontists, because they can't by law call themselves Orthodontists??
  3. TheLabGuy

    TheLabGuy Just a Member

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    Mike I wanna chime in, I've read your discussions about GP's pretending to be orthodontist's. However, that's like telling all the GP's they can't do Endo, because their not a Endodontist, or do a crown or denture, because their not Prosthodontists. In addition, I see more Periodontist's placing implants in patients than I do Oral Surgeons or GP's, I thought Periodontist's were supposedly concerned about gums. In fairness, the GP's have to advertise/market their abilities and some of the GP's have spent the time and dedication to learn orthodontics.

    As for the CDT, I have two of them, does it make me better than someone else, nope, just meant I or my lab spent the money for me take the test. It's all BS, it's just a way for the government to have it's hand on you (hence the states that require you have a CDT to own or start your lab). The NADL lost respect with me when it wouldn't try to take a stand against all the offshore manufacturing coming into the states. I know some long time CDT's that turned their CDT back into the NADL because of this. Another thing that ticks me off about the NADL is that lately they are meeting with the FDA and other government regulators, FOR WHAT? It's an act, they took a stance a few years back and now they want to act like they are trying to protect us or get more mandates, We don't need more government, we need the government to give us our money back. Okay, enough of my rant...lol
  4. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    I really have strong feelings on this one, I am not looking for fights but looking to create a dialog that might help the younger techs decide if the CDT thing is worth their while.

    Mike sorry for the denial remark, it was not meant for you.
    It more comes from my mentor who told me people would rather complain about things than take the time to fix them.

    When I have time (over the weekend) I will post more on this, as I said this is something close to my heart.

    Regards,
    Don
  5. Travis
    Paranoid

    Travis Administrator Staff Member

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    I think CDT = waste of time and money.

    Maintain credits every year? So many people I know loose their CDT because they cant get the time nor do they have the money to go to these expensive classes.

    Joe Gerace, CDT President of NADL
    Dental Services Group, CDL, DAMAS

    This jerk off supports China Labs. This is our spokes person? This guy represents US technicians?

    I call bull****.



    Great Thread by the way.
  6. Travis
    Paranoid

    Travis Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess this has two sides one being ortho you may have differ views than other people.

    I think the problem starts with the doctor. The doctor is ultimately responsible for what the patient receives. There are many bad doctors that want to get rich quick and somehow the blame gets put on us because of their negligence? There needs to be higher standards and regulations on the doctors end and worry less about the labs. Good doctors=good labs.

    In the end we need to pay for good (talented new and old) technicians. No money = less and less skilled people to do the work.

    My opinion, glad I can share my thoughts.

    Don let me know if this is what you are looking for. If I am out of line here I will move it.
  7. TheLabGuy

    TheLabGuy Just a Member

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    I personally know him, and all DSG labs send some or all of their work overseas. Always worried about the bottom dollar instead of what should be the concern THE PATIENT. Which brings into question what NADL has any right to speak for me in the first place. I wish they would butt out completely, like I want more government regulation. If the NADL wants to regulate something, how about the NADL regulating the ADA into doing something about their doctors that put that crap into a patients mouth? Oh no, NADL has to be in the mix of things, I'm with Travis on this one, it should be the Dentists that need regulated not the Labs, we will regulate ourselves.

    Here's a site for your perusal DENTISTRY vs. the FDA
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  8. yooper886

    yooper886 New Member

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    A couple of problems I have with the current CDT system, and these are the reasons I let mine lapse.

    1. The dentists have no clue as to what a CDT is or what we would go through to get certified. When this has been brought up by other techs saying the same thing others say you need to educate them. I think with all the money it costs to become certified and maintain your certification NBC should be doing this for the technicians. When I was going through the process of being certified back in 1996 we had to have a dentist sign off saying we were competent enough and his comment was that he thought all techs were certified.

    2. Does being a CDT mean you are going to have the edge or receive more money from some labs? Not that I know of. Granted I know that just because you have a CDT does not mean you know what you are doing but if you interview for a job and prove you can do the work, you may need a little fine tuning to adjust to what your new employer wants, but should you not have the edge on being hired compared to someone that is not a CDT, providing you are of equal or higher skill set? Most of the bigger labs that I hear about hiring employees would rather hire someone off of the streets and train them so they would not have to pay them as much.

    Those are just some issues that is wrong with the current system. Right now I agree with Travis and it is a waste of time and money, been there and done that. I only wish I would have seen it back then and saved my money.
  9. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Hi Rob,
    Thanks for chiming in.
    Maybe I'm not clear enough. My main focus is on SML doing treatment plans, nationwide or GPs. Focused on them as I have known of them ans this practice for 35 of the 39 years I've had in ortho. My focus on them is brought on by the focus of those drs and lab owners that were around me when I was in L.A. Left L.A. in 1992.
    It's is ture there are GPs everywhere doing ortho and other things. The lines are not clear as they could be, for all types of practice.
    An informed public is what we not. Not more regulations like a required CDT etc. If there is no specialist near you, say you rural, your choices are limited for treatment. No big deal with me. Just, disclose tothe peole, that while your not a specialist ina given field, you are competent. Let the perosn decide. If they want a crown from China, give them all the info on that situation. Radical on the China thing, but, how can a perosn make a good decision for themselves if they don't know the info.
    Then the other problem comes up....some of the public doesn't care anyway.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  10. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Hi Don,
    Close to your heart or not. We do not need more regulation.
    The government isn't here to help.
  11. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Hi Travis,
    Hey DUDE! Aren't you after a MDT???:D:D
  12. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    Struck a cord with the group....good!

    Please keep a cool head as this is a very complicated topic, maybe no name calling?

    I don't feel qualified to address all the statements made so far but let me state a few things I think are true...I say think because I might be wrong on a few issues but I have asked the Executive Director of the NADL to chime in, I don't know if he will because these types of fourms are a difficult place. Like when I was defending my patents, there was no way I could change your feelings so why expose yourself to the heat?

    NADL: They have always worked toward and continue to work for total disclosure of the origin of where the dental appliance came from. They want Dentists who use offshore labs to by law tell the patient "this was made in China"

    NBC: They work very hard to make being a CDT appreciated by dentists.
    This group of volunteers wants to create a true value and understanding that CDTs have gone the extra distance. They are working to educate the public, the dentist and the future technicians what's involved to become a CDT....God I sound like a Jim Jones follower....sorry...Don't drink the Kool Aide!

    Like I said I started this thread in hopes that younger technicians will be informed and decide for themselves if becoming a CDT is worth their while. While the NBC and even the NADL will not appreciate me saying this...if you are at an age and doing well and don't feel you need the challenge (I did need the challenge) then WTF ..why bother.

    Younger technicians have more to think about...this is not the Mom and Pop industry that it used to be. Cad Cam, Off-Shore labs and huge labs dominating the industry.
    Will being a CDT give you an edge....In my mind...without a question!

    Is it fair or correct, who knows...is it reality, I think yes again.
    Who ever said life was to be fair?

    I am really glad I took the time and effort to become a CDT even though almost no orthodontists know what the hell a CDT is. I did it for myself because it was the highest honor at the time. Will I go for a MDT, no way as I am too old.

    Look at LMT, notice how many Want Ads say CDT REQUIRED.

    and on a lighter side.....I know I opened a can of worms and already regret starting this thread...what the hell is wrong with me? why can't I just delete this link and go on with my life? I now need to check this site and have my feelings hurt and my character attacked...why do I do it?

    Travis...please shut this site down so I don't have to self abuse!!

    Don Inman CDT
  13. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    One more thought...

    This is not an Ortho only topic, should this thread be moved or copied to other specialties?
  14. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Cheer leading for the NADL, NBC, or CDTs, or MDTs, doesn't seem to be a priority. Since I have been in the business, I have heard the same as I here right now. It has been this way as far as I know, for the past 39 years. Actually, longer. Some of the folks I've talked with in the past were a fossil like I am now.
    There are those who like the regulatory organizations, and those who don't. In this dental area, lab work.
    I was thinking of taking my complaints about SML back to the thread about that, but, they fit in here as an example.
    Asa dentist can do Endodontics etc, without special training, I don't know of a lab that offers atreatment plan to the drs that practice Endodontics ect, without special training. Therein lies my problem with SML.
    Now they (SML) have been doing it for years. And just like what they are doing, after time has pasted, crowns from China will as well be more prevelent.
    Regulating lab tech is not the answer, or even a start in the right direction.
    As has been stated, regulating the drs is what is needed.
    While it is nice to have a CDT and be among a group that has a CDT, it does nothing other than provide a place to pat yourself and a few others on the back.
    Jobs requiring a CDT, bet there's more that don't. A CDT does not mean your getting a decent tech, nor does in increase the ods of getting a good tech.
    At this juncture it increases the ods of getting an employee that thinks he is worth more than he is.
    Tough one for Cade, he has no choice. Texas requires him to be a CDT and carry on the expense of the requirements for a CDT. As do a couple of other states.
    Time and money, forever, to the NBC.
    Follow the money.....like you said, there are about 100,000 dentists, there are about 10,000 Orthodontists.
    As an aside, interesting to see most of your posts are to help, and share ideas, mostly that involve the IPC. Only post you made that has pictures is the construction of the IPC.
    Now... you say you know some one well in the NBC??? Or was it an aquaintance in the NBC??
    I really liked your very first post ever here, "Please honor my appliance patent". That is sharing and helping to the max.
    Those are just a few points about SML, and Don Inman.

    This thread has great potential to put in place a reference as to how people feel about the requirement of a CDT, rather than the choice.
    As well as put in place a reference place for what dentists are doing what.

    I could be wrong, but, it seems to me that if a GP, or lab for that matter, are really producing quality and care for the patient, they would not need to practice Endodontics, or Orthodontics, or.....create treatment plans, or become a parnership,to make a buck.

    Requireing things like what the CDT is today, creates a "good ol' boy" network.
    You can't do what we do till you jump through our hoops, oh yeah, and give us money for our organization. Without out that, no job, no lab for you.
    This would cause health care costs to increase as well. Already does for Cade.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  15. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    As for this not being an ortho only topic. Seems to be working here.
    I don't trust myself to move it without screwing it up. Maybe if Travis wants and thinks it should be moved he will.
    Till then....the games have started!!
  16. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    "As an aside, interesting to see most of your posts are to help, and share ideas, mostly that involve the IPC. Only post you made that has pictures is the construction of the IPC.
    Now... you say you know some one well in the NBC??? Or was it an aquaintance in the NBC??
    I really liked your very first post ever here, "Please honor my appliance patent". That is sharing and helping to the max.
    Those are just a few points about SML, and Don Inman."





    Mike I don't know what you are saying here...really I don't understand.

    I really tried not to promote the IPC but be informative, it probably doesn't matter anyway. Sorry it won't happen again.

    I will state this without any reserve.....
    Having to keep up my credits while it could be a burden has always been a positive obligation. I always enjoyed going to the state meetings, getting my credits, having a drink with fellow techs and coming home with new knowledge.

    I also enjoy presenting at these meetings as Cade will do soon. Often after the class has ended people approach you that were too shy to ask any questions, they thank you for your efforts and the time it took create the presentation....what a rush.

    Regards,
    Don
  17. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Hi Don,
    Not surprising you don't understand.
    Cade has no choice but to be a CDT. What do you think he would do if he had a choice??
    Nice of you to share with folks in special places.
    I find it more of a rush to share her on this site. People come on and ask. Others just have a look and learn. What a rush, not really. Nice to be able to help out all people in the field, not just members.
    No closed doors here like at a CDT meeting. Unless of course you pay your dues. Probably could go as a guest I bet. But there is no point in it.
    It would be nice for those CDT folks to share their extended knowledge right here where it will reach more people.
    Cade presenting for CDT meetings?? Really. Interesting. Thanks for the info.
  18. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Also... no one is telling you not to promote or sell your IPC. The site is o.k. for that.
    Someone is saying, it seems to be what most of your posts are about while helping and sharing. HHHmmm. Don't see much on helping out with the distortion problem or any other such ortho thing being asked about.
  19. Inman Labs

    Inman Labs New Member

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    Mike you don't have to be a CDT to belong to a State, Regional or National Dental Meeting. You don't pay less to attend if you are a CDT, you don't need to be a CDT to Join a State or Regional Association. The meetings are the best place for CDTs to get their credits but it is also a wonderful place to look at new products and equipment.
    I bought a new polishing machine off the floor at this years Florida meeting and saved $700.00!

    I will if you wish post on how joining the FLDA changed my life.

    As for becoming a CDT I am not asking you to become one just asking you to be open minded in advising the younger techs that reach out to you for advise. Like I said this is not a Mom and Pop business anymore and having a CDT can only help.

    I will start another thread on this but while I am typing.....
    I am trying to organize a Laser Welding ortho program to run right before next years AAO.
    We are trying to bring in an unbelievable tech from Australia and get a laser company to co-sponsor it along with the WKE Group. If anyone is interested please let me know ASAP.

    I hope you all enjoy a long and safe weekend.

    Regards,
    Don
  20. labdude

    labdude Senior Member

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    Yes I am open minded and will continue to advise against a CDT.
    As you have heard here, and turn a blind eye to, the CDT is at this time a waste of time and money.
    It has been that way for at least 39 years that I have know of the exsistense of the CDT, and NBC.
    Before you start up another thread somewhere else, how about you answer some of the other folks that have posted here??
    You side stepping and lack of response are bogging down the site from doing something useful, like helping others.Helping others, something the NBC and CDT don't do.

    That said however, as these posts are here forever, I can use them as a link without having to go over things again and again, placing the site back in a forward moving position.
    Instead of bogging it down like the NBC, and CDT programs do to the field.

    As for doing the slightest thing to support and SML partner, if I do, it was a mistake.
    Interesting, no WKE, or SML.
    You said it's not their style to respond here. Very true, the are busy promoting themselves, just like you are at this site, promoting yourself. No problem with that, please don't run off and cry.
    You might try the CDT forum for your next stop, which is, if you cared about the site and really checked it out, you would have placed this drabble to start with.
    Mike.

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