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Bleach shades

Discussion in 'Continuing Education' started by wwcanoer, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. wwcanoer

    wwcanoer Member

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    Is anybody aware of any hands on classes on how to deal with bleach shades. My experience is that Ivoclar's BL shade guide is a piece of blank blank blank.
  2. AL1

    AL1 Member

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    I use Ivoclar`s bleach guide and have a conversion chart to use with creation seems to work well.
  3. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    I use their shade guide also. It works well for me.
    Vita also has 3 bleach tabs that you can order. Its from their 3d line.

    I have never heard of courses dealing with bleach shades. They are really no different than other shades. You just need to get shade guides and the bleach opaques and powders.

    Only thing you need to be careful of is your incisals. You may want to use a more whitish incisal or what i do is lay some white incisal over top of the reg incisal, usually on the incisal edge and carry some fingers down
  4. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    Here mabey you can see what I am talking about.

    If you just do a bleach shade straight out of the bottle body and one incisal they can look like beacons.

    When you mix in some whiter incisals it breaks it up.
    It probably takes only and extra minute or two per unit but it does make a difference if it is done so it blends in.

    This is a BL4 shade, emax crowns.


    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b9.jpg
    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b10.jpg
    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b11_Copy.jpg

    Here is a straight BL4 body and incisal only with a straight cut back and no extra add ons.

    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z3.jpg
    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b9.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b10.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_b11_Copy.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_z3.jpg
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  5. ChrisR

    ChrisR Member

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    I took the Masters course Ethetics and all-ceramics 2 years ago with Jurgen Seger at Ivoclars facility and we used the bleach e.max ingots to do a combo case of veneers bridges and full press crowns. If I remember corectly we started with the BL2 and when we finished everything was BL4. He really emphasized starting a shade or 2 lighter and working your way down. When I have a BL shade to do I have been using the HT for them. I personallt have not noticed as much of a value problem as you get with some of the other Ht ingots.
  6. kcdt

    kcdt Well-Known Member

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    I do not envy what bleach shades has done to you C&B guys. I have one working mould guide of denture teeth in bleach shade, and they don't sell anywhere near as well as good old A2 and A3.
  7. wwcanoer

    wwcanoer Member

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    Thanksyou for the responses. Al, thanks for the idea of adding white to the incisal and for the accompanying photographs. They look very nice.

    I'm frustrated with when a patient starts out at C4, and bleaches until they are in the BL range, and you're making a crown for number 8. Their current shade doesn't match anything in the BL range, and all the combinations that have been tried, are too low in value. Plus there's that underlying translucent -- blue in there .

    That is the scenario. I was just wondering if there's anybody out there who has the magic answer. I just can't imagine that I'm the only one out there who has run up against this.

    Carol
  8. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    Carol, now your dealing with single anteriors, that is a whole other beast.

    What material are you using, pfm, all ceramic?

    What I almost always do for single ants and it is not profitable but it helps to save face and makes the dr very happy.

    For tough shades I tell them up front to consider the seat appt a tryin.

    If the crown is off I use it as a guide, I for sure have to have pics.
    I make a new crown using the old crown and the pics as a guide and then I make changes to the old crown.

    Then the doc has 2 crowns to choose from. Usually doing it that way I get it in 2 tryins.

    If I am not sure of it I ask for the patient to stop by the drs office and I meet them there and hold the crown up to their mouth to see how close it is with out taking up any of the drs chair time.
  9. Al.

    Al. Well-Known Member

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    Carol,
    I highly recommend you buy shade guides that the manufactor of your porc puts out.

    I use ivoclars, they have a shade tab for every shade of porc they make.

    I just sent a Dr I do work for in NJ the guides for the emax pressing ingots and a incisal guide and guide that has all the odd incisal shade including the white incisals.

    They cost 80 a peice. I sent him 3 guides.

    I think they are already going to pay for themselves.

    Check out this case he just sent me. There is no way he could tell me the shade with traditional shade tabs.

    I know exactly what ingot to use and incisal. I bet I will get it the first try with this now but with a regular vita shade guide it would be a tough crown to make.
    This is dark but the same applies to bleach shades.

    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_x.jpg
    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_x1.jpg
    ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_x.jpg ai46.photobucket.com_albums_f116_CDLAB_x1.jpg
  10. CShof

    CShof Member

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    Al, every time I see your work it never ceases to amaze me. I swear, the only thing better than god's work is Al's work.
  11. billydte

    billydte Member

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    If your using Vita, use the enamel tabs also. 3d shade guide, BL tabs, and enamel tabs....you'll get it every time.
  12. wwcanoer

    wwcanoer Member

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    Okay, I'm back.

    I'm using D'sign porcelain, on Aquarius, the Vita Shade guide range, although I do have a lot of the Chromascope shades, and Ivoclar's design shade tabs. I get pictures, and have the patient in for shade checks. What is frustrating for me is when at the original visit the shade looks like a perfect 030 match, (but those powders aren't available any more) make the crown, have the patient in for a shade check, and to my eye, it looks great, good lighting. Then at the appointment crown in the mouth, with good lighting, the value is too low. This particular crown, I made three times, the lab up the street tried three times. This lab uses d'sign porcelain, and then tried the 3-D bleach shades., and now the lab down the street is on attempt number four, I think he uses Degussa porcelains.

    Oh well, thanks for everybody's time and input on this topic.

    Carol

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