B&D Origin Live, v6

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Is anyone using these colors? I got a few bottles, C-3 and A-2 in both the 70 and 80 concentrations. I saturated some samples of different Zrs and the colors look good, but...

I couldn't tell the difference between the 70 and 80. Maybe my eyes are failing. If you use them, toss me a bone. Which concentration is stronger; which do you use? Is the diff so subtle that its tough to tell them apart for you?
 
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I see you are still looking for the holly grail of colorants.

I gave up searching and concentrated on one system. I still dabble from time to time on new stuff. Lately I have been playing with the WhitePeaks stuff with some favorable results but finding they are all so different to really compare apples to apples.

Never had good results with anything from origin, but I will preference that statement by saying I gave up with out putting too much effort in to learning it.
 
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I was just going to place an order and the rep hit me with a monkey wrench. They make a version 4.1 too. I didn't realize ver 6 was more intense and made for high trans.

Post people! I know some of you are using it. My mistakes are costly. PM me if you must, but are you using B&D liquids? What version, and if you don't mind, what Zr are you liking it on?

Does anyone else buy every version of every product and start playing like me or have you stuck with your first stuff and just focused on technique?

Specifically, Id like to know if you use version 4.1 or 6 on Sagemax NexxZr +. I know the super trans stuff needs more intense liquids, but Ive been getting decent results with my odd-ball mix Ive been using on my high strength stuff. Where does the Sage fall in your coloring spectrum? Treating it like regular or super trans?
 
Mike2

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I have stuck with Lava liquids, but I am thinking of trying some of Chang's for certain 3D shades and effects. I get really good results with the XT and Lava liquids, the girls touch up with stains and have heard nothing but good things from Dr's...I would also like to get the magic liquids that require no post sinter coloring, but haven't taken the time to perfect....too many variables like thickness, color uptake and different levels of trans...my 2cents
 
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I've used them but same probably haven't spent enough time working with them. Worked pretty good with ArgenZ Anterior. But they always just seemed ok...60 is the lightest, 80 is darkest. I've dipped anywhere between 45 and 60 sec. I started using Ivoclar's MT liquids on NexxZr+ with good results. Considering that I guess I've been treating it like HT so I would give the 6.0 a try.
 
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I've used them but same probably haven't spent enough time working with them. Worked pretty good with ArgenZ Anterior. But they always just seemed ok...60 is the lightest, 80 is darkest. I've dipped anywhere between 45 and 60 sec. I started using Ivoclar's MT liquids on NexxZr+ with good results. Considering that I guess I've been treating it like HT so I would give the 6.0 a try.
Could you explain a bit how youre seeing the differences between the Origin and the MT?
 
Car 54

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I was just going to place an order and the rep hit me with a monkey wrench. They make a version 4.1 too. I didn't realize ver 6 was more intense and made for high trans.

Post people! I know some of you are using it. My mistakes are costly. PM me if you must, but are you using B&D liquids? What version, and if you don't mind, what Zr are you liking it on?

Does anyone else buy every version of every product and start playing like me or have you stuck with your first stuff and just focused on technique?

Specifically, Id like to know if you use version 4.1 or 6 on Sagemax NexxZr +. I know the super trans stuff needs more intense liquids, but Ive been getting decent results with my odd-ball mix Ive been using on my high strength stuff. Where does the Sage fall in your coloring spectrum? Treating it like regular or super trans?

The 4.1 is for the Live zirconia, the 1300mpa white discs, as well as the 3D coloring liquid. The dilution rate is 10% between the 60/70/80. So if you wanted to get the 60 as it worked better on some zirconias and thin it out with 10% distilled water to make a 70 (less intense) for other zirconias, could save some money in that way. I'm still experimenting myself, so I can't give you any specifics of what it looks best on in my hands.

From my understanding, 3M sells their coloring liquids to some of other vendors who re-brand it?
 
DanM

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Could you explain a bit how youre seeing the differences between the Origin and the MT?
I haven't used origin on NexxZr+, just MT liquids. I usually like to brush and couldn't get origin liquids to brush as well only dip. But I see Origin has they're own version of HT 1000MPA zirconia. They have listed to use another liquid system, 6.1. But said 6.0 will work. So treat it like HT and see how it goes.
 
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The 4.1 is for the Live zirconia, the 1300mpa white discs, as well as the 3D coloring liquid. The dilution rate is 10% between the 60/70/80. So if you wanted to get the 60 as it worked better on some zirconias and thin it out with 10% distilled water to make a 70 (less intense) for other zirconias, could save some money in that way. I'm still experimenting myself, so I can't give you any specifics of what it looks best on in my hands.

From my understanding, 3M sells their coloring liquids to some of other vendors who re-brand it?
Not true from what I know. I bet you are thinking of the situation where 3M has a patent on coloring zirconia and will allow competitors to sell coloring liquids if they sign an agreement with 3M?
 
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Not true from what I know. I bet you are thinking of the situation where 3M has a patent on coloring zirconia and will allow competitors to sell coloring liquids if they sign an agreement with 3M?
Hi KIM. I know that you are much more knowledgeable about 'whats what' and whos who in the bottles than me. Its a costly adventure to buy some of everything and try them out to find whats going to look most like a tooth, but that's what weve got to do to stand apart in the pursuit to be the best. I can say with certainty they they are all not the same. Some like Lava and Origin are very homogenous and everything stays in suspension, but others like Zirkonzahn and to a lesser extent Changs have 'stuff' that needs to be thoroughly shaken. Colors are different, and some absorb more readily than others.
Throw different Zirconias in the mix and the possibilities grow exponentially. If all I was doing was trying to find the perfect no-stain needed A-2, then its a fair fight .Hitting 16 is a challenge. Id sit back and paint by numbers all day if that were the end game, but when you have Doctors insisting on prescribing from the 3-D guide, then you can start to feel my pain. In this world of digital revolution where the big players get bulk prices and the race to the bank is done on an ever shrinking profit margin, we small guys really, really need to differentiate ourselves by being the best. Being the best means you have to train. Try things. Try again...

For those that don't know you, I wont bust your cover, but I hope you know that you've done more for me than anyone here to get me to a leveI can survive the revolution. I know youre not really happy with me as I search for the holy grail, but its my job. We are all in this together and if my R&D yields a prize, youll be one of the first to know.

mi casa su casa
 
Car 54

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Not true from what I know. I bet you are thinking of the situation where 3M has a patent on coloring zirconia and will allow competitors to sell coloring liquids if they sign an agreement with 3M?

Thank you for clearing that up, Kim, as I wasn't totally sure, so I put it in the form of a question.

Jepordy_zpso7zscauh.jpg
 
Car 54

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Hi KIM. I know that you are much more knowledgeable about 'whats what' and whos who in the bottles than me. Its a costly adventure to buy some of everything and try them out to find whats going to look most like a tooth, but that's what weve got to do to stand apart in the pursuit to be the best. I can say with certainty they they are all not the same. Some like Lava and Origin are very homogenous and everything stays in suspension, but others like Zirkonzahn and to a lesser extent Changs have 'stuff' that needs to be thoroughly shaken. Colors are different, and some absorb more readily than others.
Throw different Zirconias in the mix and the possibilities grow exponentially. If all I was doing was trying to find the perfect no-stain needed A-2, then its a fair fight .Hitting 16 is a challenge. Id sit back and paint by numbers all day if that were the end game, but when you have Doctors insisting on prescribing from the 3-D guide, then you can start to feel my pain. In this world of digital revolution where the big players get bulk prices and the race to the bank is done on an ever shrinking profit margin, we small guys really, really need to differentiate ourselves by being the best. Being the best means you have to train. Try things. Try again...

For those that don't know you, I wont bust your cover, but I hope you know that you've done more for me than anyone here to get me to a leveI can survive the revolution. I know youre not really happy with me as I search for the holy grail, but its my job. We are all in this together and if my R&D yields a prize, youll be one of the first to know.

mi casa su casa

So far for the reason you mentioned, whether I knew it or not (lack of experience) I do like the Origin liquids. I like their colors, and the low price is really a nice plus.

I did get a bottle of the Origin 3D shade, 2M1, to try out with some of the zirconias to see if I can get it figured out. Even though it's made for the Origin Live zirconia,
I'll dilute or mix as needed to try to get closer to the 3D shades some of my Drs are asking for.
 
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Three Zirconias.
Jensen XT,
NexxZr +
Changs Aurora.

Six liquids.
Origin 4.1 80
Origin 6.1 80
Origin 6.1 70
Zirkonzahn Aquarell
NexxZr
Changs

All units have the same flicks of incisal mix to slightly reduce value.
All units have the same application technique with the same (cleaned) brush.

I know that different Zr works better with a specific application...for instance, most monolithic I would apply (as I did in this test) 2 even but not heavy coats over all, one additional mid third and down, one additional at cervical third, one even coat inside. Changs, being multi-strength and trans, needs more liquid to the incisal and less to the cervical. I didn't do that. Everything was treated the same. My test isn't how well I can get each zirconia to look its best. (err..:confused: what?!) My test, my rules. Your humor.

Im going to cook them tonight all on the same cycle in the same oven...and not my favorite oven. Again...my test.

2016-12-01 04.44.44.jpg

Tomorrow Ill weed them out. I know this isn't fair to the Changs because the application is nearly the opposite of what it should be. Honestly, theyre Chinese and Id be happy to not like it. Ive worked with it quite a bit and I can get it pretty decent. Again, not the plan here.

This as close as I can get to a blind test. I had to peek, but clearly I don't know what Im doing. Again, my test.
 
Sda36

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Three Zirconias.
Jensen XT,
NexxZr +
Changs Aurora.

Six liquids.
Origin 4.1 80
Origin 6.1 80
Origin 6.1 70
Zirkonzahn Aquarell
NexxZr
Changs

All units have the same flicks of incisal mix to slightly reduce value.
All units have the same application technique with the same (cleaned) brush.

I know that different Zr works better with a specific application...for instance, most monolithic I would apply (as I did in this test) 2 even but not heavy coats over all, one additional mid third and down, one additional at cervical third, one even coat inside. Changs, being multi-strength and trans, needs more liquid to the incisal and less to the cervical. I didn't do that. Everything was treated the same. My test isn't how well I can get each zirconia to look its best. (err..:confused: what?!) My test, my rules. Your humor.

Im going to cook them tonight all on the same cycle in the same oven...and not my favorite oven. Again...my test.

View attachment 24145

Tomorrow Ill weed them out. I know this isn't fair to the Changs because the application is nearly the opposite of what it should be. Honestly, theyre Chinese and Id be happy to not like it. Ive worked with it quite a bit and I can get it pretty decent. Again, not the plan here.

This as close as I can get to a blind test. I had to peek, but clearly I don't know what Im doing. Again, my test.
A big effort and appreciated for sure [emoji4], look forward to the post pics, good stuff user!
 
L

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Three Zirconias.
Jensen XT,
NexxZr +
Changs Aurora.

Six liquids.
Origin 4.1 80
Origin 6.1 80
Origin 6.1 70
Zirkonzahn Aquarell
NexxZr
Changs

All units have the same flicks of incisal mix to slightly reduce value.
All units have the same application technique with the same (cleaned) brush.

I know that different Zr works better with a specific application...for instance, most monolithic I would apply (as I did in this test) 2 even but not heavy coats over all, one additional mid third and down, one additional at cervical third, one even coat inside. Changs, being multi-strength and trans, needs more liquid to the incisal and less to the cervical. I didn't do that. Everything was treated the same. My test isn't how well I can get each zirconia to look its best. (err..:confused: what?!) My test, my rules. Your humor.

Im going to cook them tonight all on the same cycle in the same oven...and not my favorite oven. Again...my test.

View attachment 24145

øk, so have you finished the tests ? where are the result pictures?

Tomorrow Ill weed them out. I know this isn't fair to the Changs because the application is nearly the opposite of what it should be. Honestly, theyre Chinese and Id be happy to not like it. Ive worked with it quite a bit and I can get it pretty decent. Again, not the plan here.

This as close as I can get to a blind test. I had to peek, but clearly I don't know what Im doing. Again, my test.
Three Zirconias.
Jensen XT,
NexxZr +
Changs Aurora.

Six liquids.
Origin 4.1 80
Origin 6.1 80
Origin 6.1 70
Zirkonzahn Aquarell
NexxZr
Changs

All units have the same flicks of incisal mix to slightly reduce value.
All units have the same application technique with the same (cleaned) brush.

I know that different Zr works better with a specific application...for instance, most monolithic I would apply (as I did in this test) 2 even but not heavy coats over all, one additional mid third and down, one additional at cervical third, one even coat inside. Changs, being multi-strength and trans, needs more liquid to the incisal and less to the cervical. I didn't do that. Everything was treated the same. My test isn't how well I can get each zirconia to look its best. (err..:confused: what?!) My test, my rules. Your humor.

Im going to cook them tonight all on the same cycle in the same oven...and not my favorite oven. Again...my test.

View attachment 24145

Tomorrow Ill weed them out. I know this isn't fair to the Changs because the application is nearly the opposite of what it should be. Honestly, theyre Chinese and Id be happy to not like it. Ive worked with it quite a bit and I can get it pretty decent. Again, not the plan here.

This as close as I can get to a blind test. I had to peek, but clearly I don't know what Im doing. Again, my test.
 
M

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Argen Zirconia and ZZ aquarell. Good results for me. Lots of choices out there.
 

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