3shape and high occlusion

[sndmn2]

I recently started to receive my milled crowns from Argen with high occlusion. I don't think its on their end.For instance, the crown I have in my hand is a #30 , margins fine, M&D contacts fine but for some reason the occlusion is in contact . I verified that the mounting is correct with the scan mount. My clearance color slider tells me I'm .30 out and my 2d tells me almost a .50. I talked with support last week about it and got a 10 minute lesson on how to check my occlusion. Any thoughts ? Scanner is regularly calibrated. Thanks for any ideas. Happy 4th to all.

 

[JMN]

Imperial vs Metric

Seriously, I'd start with verifying my dme was uncorrupted.

 

[sndmn2]

snippet......

 

[Juko]

I have been wrestling with this as well. Figured it was just me but now.... not so sure

 

[CoolHandLuke]

its your bite scan.

this is a well known 3shape fault. the bite scan is done with a low res scan, and the alignment is off. check your molar contact. it will be open.

you must always start off designing by using the virtual articulator to close the bite, using the Optimize button at the very least.

you would be able to see exactly that the crown was in the bite when you moved the virtual jaws. blue dots. blue dots everywhere. digital contact paper.

you know Bruce, the 3shape support guy that showed up here? he refuses to speak to me about this very issue.

 

[2thm8kr]

you know Bruce, the 3shape support guy that showed up here? he refuses to speak to me about this very issue.

 

[sndmn2]

OK . Did a check. First picture of my bite. Second with bite optimizing. .. If I read it correctly . The first pictures shows me a push through the opposing and no contact on the bi's. The second photo shows me a .15 correction and I now have contact on Bi's. I'm guessing the rubber band on the hinge part of the art. pulled the bite.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

yes, now if you rub contact paper between your models youll notice the points of contact are bigger than those three pinhead sized points you see in 3 shape.

keep closing the bite until you get red circles as big as those contact areas. most of the time thats as simple as using the blue orthogonal arch adjustment positioners by .1

take into consideration the following: if the scan is off by 20um on one arch, 20um on the other arch, and 40um (low res scan) on the bite, and then is auto adjusted .15 so the models dont make contact, how much exactly is your bite off?

the answer, if the math isnt working for you, is 240um (.24)

so closing .15 with the optimize tool, and overclosing .1, puts you back in the right ballpark.

 

[Car 54]

OK . Did a check. First picture of my bite. View attachment 26764 Second with bite optimizing. View attachment 26764.. If I read it correctly . The first pictures shows me a push through the opposing and no contact on the bi's. The second photo shows me a .15 correction and I now have contact on Bi's. I'm guessing the rubber band on the hinge part of the art. pulled the bite.

Maybe it's just me, but I've found 2016 to be more accurate? Or, that I am consistently get better results w/o
using rubber bands and by equilibrating the casts pre -scan, then sticky waxing the casts together,
one spot towards the labial anterior and one spot towards the lingual posterior (when scanning the bite).

 

[sndmn2]

I also use that procedure quite a bit. I use that 10 second glue with the blue light or hot glue gun.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Maybe it's just me, but I've found 2016 to be more accurate? Or, that I am consistently get better results w/o
using rubber bands and by equilibrating the casts pre -scan, then sticky waxing the casts together,
one spot towards the labial anterior and one spot towards the lingual posterior (when scanning the bite).

its an illusion. the bite scan is still done with the quickest, lowest detail, and creating open bites in error solely due to this fact.

 

[Sevan P]

Maybe it's just me, but I've found 2016 to be more accurate? Or, that I am consistently get better results w/o
using rubber bands and by equilibrating the casts pre -scan, then sticky waxing the casts together,
one spot towards the labial anterior and one spot towards the lingual posterior (when scanning the bite).

Nope, been having spot on occlusion since 2014 and hard to believe 2015 2016 is the same.

I rarely calibrate my scanners and mills unless needed. Maybe once a month on the scanners d700 and d2000.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

not sure what the deal is, lots of good info from CHL.....but my crowns come out fine (v2014 on a d700) and ive never used the "optimize" button.
as with Affinity, i rarely calibrate. one a month or every other month is about routine. mainly cause i forget LOL...but since i dont run into issues, i think it has been working out well.

 

[Sevan P]

Maybe time to have your scanner setup with plab as a new scanner. Clear all info and Cali ration data.

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[adl]

yes, now if you rub contact paper between your models youll notice the points of contact are bigger than those three pinhead sized points you see in 3 shape.

keep closing the bite until you get red circles as big as those contact areas. most of the time thats as simple as using the blue orthogonal arch adjustment positioners by .1

take into consideration the following: if the scan is off by 20um on one arch, 20um on the other arch, and 40um (low res scan) on the bite, and then is auto adjusted .15 so the models dont make contact, how much exactly is your bite off?

the answer, if the math isnt working for you, is 240um (.24)

so closing .15 with the optimize tool, and overclosing .1, puts you back in the right ballpark.

Thank you!

 

[Car 54]

Nope, been having spot on occlusion since 2014 and hard to believe 2015 2016 is the same.

I rarely calibrate my scanners and mills unless needed. Maybe once a month on the scanners d700 and d2000.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

When I had my initial 3Shape orientation, I was told to re calibrate once there was a 5 degree difference, as that could affect the accuracy. I tend to look at that
more than the days since the last calibration. Is that true, do you just ignore the time to calibrate warning?

 

[Patrick Coon]

When I had my initial 3Shape orientation, I was told to re calibrate once there was a 5 degree difference, as that could affect the accuracy. I tend to look at that
more than the days since the last calibration. Is that true, do you just ignore the time to calibrate warning?

I would watch the temp as you have been, but also if your temp is pretty constant calibrate when prompted by time.

 

[Car 54]

I would watch the temp as you have been, but also if your temp is pretty constant calibrate when prompted by time.

Thank you, Sponsor Patrick That's what I was told by Ivoclar Troy, to do it as a scheduled once a week routine.

 

[Sevan P]

Thank you, Sponsor Patrick That's what I was told by Ivoclar Troy, to do it as a scheduled once a week routine.

It won't hurt I will tell you this much. But it the bites are way off calibration alone will not help, might need to have plab run on the scanner for a fresh new scanner setup.

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[Patrick Coon]

It won't hurt I will tell you this much. But it the bites are way off calibration alone will not help, might need to have plab run on the scanner for a fresh new scanner setup.

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Agreed! I was only commenting on his calibration schedule. Not on the ability of this alone fixing his high occlusion issues. I always optimize/close the bite to get things a little tighter. I think of it the same as equilibrating casts.

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