3M Lava Esthetic Fluorescent Full-Contour Zirconia

[Greg Lutke]

Even though I am a dentist, I attended the LMT Chicago meeting last week. I listened to the 3M rep discuss 3M™ Lava™ Esthetic Fluorescent Full-Contour Zirconia. He said it could be used for veneers – which caught me off guard.

This material seems like the best possible FCZ crown currently for esthetic – but I was wondering what I am missing. I don’t see much here on DLN about this material. It seems like the complete replacement for Emax in my practice. It seems to be twice as strong as Emax and have a shade gradient built in to the disks. Everything is pre-colored to help with adjustments at seating. Any discussion you guys may have here would be appreciated.

 

[rkm rdt]

Greg, milling veneers in any material seems to be a challenge compared to pressing.
It's probably another great zirconia for full crowns but I would stick ( pun intended) to a proven etchable material like lithium (di) silicate.

 

[Greg Lutke]

Yes Robert, I asked him that exact question. He said the bond to the FCZ was much stronger than the bond to the tooth (dentin & enamel). I personally would not use it for veneers, but would try and use it for full crowns that need esthetic results - like I have benn using pressed Emax. As you know, the cutback and layering on Emax has proven to be the weakest link. It's always a bummer when a beautiful case comes back in with Emax fracture. Just trying to move forward with a beautiful, yet stronger material.
Have you worked with 3M Lava Esthetic on a case?

 

[rkm rdt]

Yes Robert, I asked him that exact question. He said the bond to the FCZ was much stronger than the bond to the tooth (dentin & enamel). I personally would not use it for veneers, but would try and use it for full crowns that need esthetic results - like I have benn using pressed Emax. As you know, the cutback and layering on Emax has proven to be the weakest link. It's always a bummer when a beautiful case comes back in with Emax fracture. Just trying to move forward with a beautiful, yet stronger material.
Have you worked with 3M Lava Esthetic on a case?

No I haven't.
I prefer to layer my anterior zirconias so I don't really have a need for these new generation fczs.
I only use emax in full contour for that reason.

I also don't forget the past failures of these companies such as Lava ultimate and Tragis Vectris for example.

 

[Greg Lutke]

Thanks Robert, completely understand.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i don't have any experience with this but i do want to put something forward here.

it is pretty evident that the shade tabs vary. it is also pretty evident that it is a rare enough case to do work that needs to look just like the shade tab. rarer still to do anterior work that is relatively simple.

so i have to ask myslef three questions.

1. is this new 3m material just going to create more problems insofar as i only get to use it when the stars all align?

2. why couldnt they use the 3d master system instead?

3. is this a material that is beneficial to large volume production on the above answers?

i have to consider not only the 'best outcome' but my own limitations of manufacturing. if i have 2 A2's and 3 A1's and 4 A3's and a bunch of C and D... this is going to take me all day to do.

much easier to do it white and do it right.

 

[Gru]

Perhaps a few who have used it will chime in. In the meantime, a friend who has done a number of them and does not do cheap work says the shades available are very good. Whether it's this product or a similar product, I'm becoming a believer that zr is on it's way to outpacing ld crowns, and probably soon. I'll be curious to see my first cases in the product.

 

[user name]

Even though I am a dentist, I attended the LMT Chicago meeting last week. I listened to the 3M rep discuss 3M™ Lava™ Esthetic Fluorescent Full-Contour Zirconia. He said it could be used for veneers – which caught me off guard.

This material seems like the best possible FCZ crown currently for esthetic – but I was wondering what I am missing. I don’t see much here on DLN about this material. It seems like the complete replacement for Emax in my practice. It seems to be twice as strong as Emax and have a shade gradient built in to the disks. Everything is pre-colored to help with adjustments at seating. Any discussion you guys may have here would be appreciated.

Ive played with the material a lot, and have visited with a tech rep of the supplier who is in agreement with me...

The incisals are too bright and are more opaque than some other options, and when the material gets glazed, it seems to change in appearance to what you would expect from an older high strength Zr. Initially I liked what I was seeing, but only if its polished. Its nothing Ill be using in the future.

 

[Greg Lutke]

Thanks for the replys.
The 3M rep said they are releasing 8 new shades to add the the original limited shades they released.
As reps do - he said that when doing a blind test of crowns (I know, lol) comparing to Emax and others, he said they observers picked the Lava Esthetic over Emax and others.
Reps say whatever they need to say, I do get this. The solution I am seeking is the limitations of the other materials. None are perfect - but someone is going to get the preshaded and gradient FCZ figured out.

It does seem that most techs on this board do not enjoy working with Emax as FCZ seems to be the more user friendly for milling. I did try the IPS e.max Press Multi on a case. It was disappointing in that it looked monochromatic. Just stained a little.

Over the past 2 years, the Zirconias just seem to keep getting better. I have seated 3 units of the Lava Esthetic. They were on a non-esthetic case, but otherwise looked great.

 

[Affinity]

I think subtractive manufacturing, i.e. milling.. has a shelf life. When do the techs realize that we are wasting probably 60% of the material we buy. I dont think the mfgs care because they profit on 100% of the material. I believe that we will be printing materials in the near future, zirconia or otherwise. I think the need for super-strength crowns is good for some things but not necessary for every pt.

 

[TheLabGuy]

We lab techs are very close to having repeatable aestethic FCZ crowns for a few reasons. The manufacturers of disks have made a better product, the coloring liquids are much more easier to work with, and happen to be much more consistent. The sintering process doesn't seem to be an issue and something easily adjusted. Personally, I love the new zirconia on the market and the new liquids. Any half way decent lab can focus on other things now...clinical delivery times under five mins, easy to dial in your Docs preferences with digital workflow.

P.S. As for sales weasels...take what they tell you with a grain of salt. Your techs knows what lie behind the BS.

 

[adl]

I've done a few and I like them.they need some creating staining but my shades are coming out really nice.Maybe I just got lucky with the way they were positioned in the puck. I have only used them for posteriors and my doctors are telling me they look nice.I also charge more for them compared to the other zirconia full contour.. I will use them.

 

[Greg Lutke]

I've done a few and I like them.they need some creating staining but my shades are coming out really nice.Maybe I just got lucky with the way they were positioned in the puck. I have only used them for posteriors and my doctors are telling me they look nice.I also charge more for them compared to the other zirconia full contour.. I will use them.

Thanks for the info.
Question, if you restored 5-13 - and didn't need to match anything, do you think the restorations (after your creative staining) look as good as Emax?

 

[user name]

Better than e.max mono, but id go for Katana.

 

[Affinity]

Thats like saying: Which is better, a Dali oil painting or acrylic painting?

 

[KIM]

Better than e.max mono, but id go for Katana.

You will need to compare your Katana to the new Imagine Multilayered and let the results speak for themselves.......

 

[Car 54]

You will need to compare your Katana to the new Imagine Multilayered and let the results speak for themselves.......

Thanks, KIM....I was wondering about that in the "side by side" comparison of JED. That I heard correctly, it was Image Multi that I believe Don had done a minimal/micro layer cutback on, and not the new Lava.

 

[KIM]

Thanks, KIM....I was wondering about that in the "side by side" comparison of JED. That I heard correctly, it was Image Multi that I believe Don had done a minimal/micro layer cutback on, and not the new Lava.

Don did the case in both Lava Esthetic and Imagine Multilayered......

 

[Car 54]

I was watching it on the Webcast. I probably got confused and thought one was Imagine white pre sinter colored and one in the micro layered multi. At the end, which version of the above you mentioned, did they say had a warm look to it? (it was my favorite)

 

[adl]

Thanks for the info.
Question, if you restored 5-13 - and didn't need to match anything, do you think the restorations (after your creative staining) look as good as Emax?

I won't know till I'll do some anteriors . I will post results.