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3d printers question

Discussion in 'Dental-CAD' started by chromecobalt, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. chromecobalt

    chromecobalt New Member

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    Ok guys, there are so many 3d printers in the market today but how the heck do you export successfully to the printer to print what is exactly needed?
    For example, angulation and sprueing etc?

    And do they only work with 3shape scanner?
  2. Parkway1
    Cynical

    Parkway1 Well-Known Member Donator Sponsors

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    I know with my projet dp 3000 there is no spruing what so ever. We lay the partial/crowns or whatever on the occlusion and when it prints it will print a white support wax on the first layer then it prints the green part resin/wax material. So I guess the white support wax acts like a sprue but on our plate we can put around 200 units on a cycle.

    Exporting isnt a problem when we get a file from someone I will reopen the unit up in a program called magics and clean everything up.

    You can use 3Sahpe Exocad Lava Dental Wings whatever produces a file so there is no limitation.

    I'll post some pics when I get to the office.
  3. Chris Halke

    Chris Halke New Member

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    Are you asking from 3Shape specifically or in general. Almost all CAM equipment, especially from major manufacturers will accept an .STL (stereolithography) file. In regards to the angle and spruing it depends on which printer you decide to go with. Those like Objet, 3D Systems, and Dimension that use support material are fairly fire and forget as they will develop their own support structure to make sure the object prints correctly. With these printers the biggest thing you want to pay attention to is the height of the job, which controls the time of the build. The taller the job the longer the printer will take to create the part and often the more support material will be used (generally the flatter the object the less support material, though this is not always true). There is also the added cost of the support material, and the labor necessary to reduce it which again varies from system to system. Conversely there are the perfactory style printers like EnvisionTEC that only use a single material type and have sprues that support the object. With this method orientation and support is much more important as if there is an unsupported section of crown it will not print correctly and could fall of the build tray. This means a bit more time in nesting but a somewhat cheaper cost per unit since only a single material is used, and a much faster clean up time (arguable I know). Perfactory machines also have a tendency to be much simpler from a mechanical standpoint which means less parts that can break.

    3D Printers will work with any system that can produce an .STL file. Additional some have special agreements, like Sirona and 3D Systems, in which a non-STL file can be used.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info.
  4. chromecobalt

    chromecobalt New Member

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  5. Parkway1
    Cynical

    Parkway1 Well-Known Member Donator Sponsors

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    This is how the 3d systems pro jet prints.
    Personally I would go with the 3Shape first then outsource a couple for a little bit to make sure you like the printing style of things before you commit and spend the money and find out you dont like the way things are!

    ai1191.photobucket.com_albums_z465_Mizzle11_2012_06_27080823.jpg
    ai1191.photobucket.com_albums_z465_Mizzle11_2012_06_27080823.jpg
  6. Chris Halke

    Chris Halke New Member

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    .
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  7. Chris Halke

    Chris Halke New Member

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    Agreed!
    Well that is a nifty looking machine. I found a few references online claiming that it can print at 20 micron, which is impressive. Try emailing the company to make sure their software can accept .STL files (athough I don't see any reason why they shouldn't). Also maybe request some samples to test the amount of ash left over after burnout. If you need a couple of sample files we have a bunch here as we use 3Shape.
  8. chromecobalt

    chromecobalt New Member

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    I tried contacting ultimaker, even called him but he suggested that I fill up the coping space and make the base wider for stability while printing (Which is what I DO NOT want).
    It does print all STL files but this is where Im stuck at, how on earth do I get the machine to print with sprues or does the CAD software already do that for you?

    That 3d systems pro jet, how much is it? It looks like a nice machine
  9. Chris Halke

    Chris Halke New Member

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    With that machine it may depend on the software. I know we have CAM Bridge from 3Shape that allows us to add and edit sprues on our perfactory machine. Maybe their software would do the same? Last I heard the latest ProJet from 3D Systems was about $80-90,000. We have an Invision DP here that is working alright now but has given us quite a few problems in the past. The prints look great, although the plastic/wax hybrid they use makes adding wax after printing a bit difficult. From what I understand the newer models are quite a bit more dependable than the one we have. It will do about 120 units in 5-6 hours with about a 30min-1hr desupport stage.. For more info I would definitely recommend contacting Rich Motto at CAD Blu or Scott at Dominion Dental.

    I would recommend looking into perfactory as well. The initial cost is a bit higher but the prints are less per unit and the machine is a little easier to maintain. We have ours cycling 60 units every 3-4 hours and about a 5 minute cleanup time. Al Siblani at EnvisionTEC would be the one to contact for this.
  10. Parkway1
    Cynical

    Parkway1 Well-Known Member Donator Sponsors

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    For our projet we paid 39k for it. It was used with only 40 hours on it. Lab that had it went out of business and DMC bought if from the bank and I bought it from him!
  11. Chris Halke

    Chris Halke New Member

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    Great price Parkway!

    Chrome we can send you sample of each type if you would like as well.
  12. Parkway1
    Cynical

    Parkway1 Well-Known Member Donator Sponsors

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  13. DMC
    No Mood

    DMC wheeeeeeeee!!! Donator Sponsors

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    While that may be able to position a drop of goo in 20um accuracy....the actual Blob of material is waaay too wide to use in our industry.

    The minimum wall thickness of a part is going to kill the deal. So, the detailed areas are not going to look worth a crap.

    Same for almost all extruded plastic printers. STAY AWAY! Unless you want to print some Smurf figurines.

    The "Blobs" of semi-melted plastic are going to be 500 microns wide at the very minimum!! Waaaaaaaay too big!

    This is defined by the oriface of the single nozzle pumping out the stuff. The hole is .5mm for the absolute smallest nozzle.

    Really can't go much below that for squirting out plastic. I don't see a fix for this problem in the next decade for this style of printer.

    awww.toydreamer.com.au_newsimages_2005smurfs.jpg
    awww.toydreamer.com.au_newsimages_2005smurfs.jpg
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  14. 3ShapeTrios

    3ShapeTrios New Member

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    LOL. Please don't even try to use that 'printer' lol. You'd be wasting your time. If you want to try some experimental stuff then pickup this bad boy.

    B9Creator - A High Resolution 3D Printer by Michael Joyce — Kickstarter
  15. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    ulitmaker, makerbot, are open source hardware. making the printer is easy; making the printer better is a small but simple feat of engineering, available to everyone. regardless of how you think these printers are quality-wise, you simply cannot beat the price listed. thats if you are a real whitey and buy everything; go to thingverse and download the files and have your existing printer print the new printer completely free.

    thats nothing to sneeze at. besides which, the makerbot printers offer 5x better resolution and layer thickness.

    to chrome: expensive printers come with tools to help you print, like nesting features in a milling machine. depending the printer, your cam software will dictate how you print.

    you are currently printing copings? in wax? plastic? the ultimaker and the replicator (makerbot) come with SOFTWARE (not hardware, this keeps cost down, and lowers the total for people buying this stuff) for you to install and generate G-Code for printing. read this:Software setup guide - Ultimaker Wiki
  16. DMC
    No Mood

    DMC wheeeeeeeee!!! Donator Sponsors

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    Maybe in a dream?

    Where is this "Bad Boy" for sale? I bet theyy get sued or bought before you will see them for sale.

    Maybe I am wrong? Are they even for sale?? Some me. Post a link with price.
  17. CoolHandLuke
    Goofy

    CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member

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    something i just ran across on youtube. 3d CONCRETE printing. Future of Construction Process: 3D Concrete Printing - YouTube

    essentially they are pre-fab blocks to be assembled, which isnt really innovative except for the fact they will integrate the wiring/plumbing. but even that is also not innovative as they are effectively making it impossible to cater to extra demand with any printed structure.

    not exactly forward thinking. giant step sideways.
  18. TECHARTISAN

    TECHARTISAN Member

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    Envisiontek has patents on the method of vat separation, the composition of their vat asembly, and projection schemes for resolution enhancement. This was designed around those patents.

    The project got quite a bit of media attention. There was another DLP resin printer being launched on indigogo at the same time. That system failed to reach its $300,000 goal. The B9 reached its $50K goal in the first 24 hours. The initial offering on kickstarter raised $513,422 sold just shy of 200 units. Micheal Joyce, the designer/builder, estimates those kits will be shipped by the end of august. Hes been posting updates regularly on his kickstarter page.

    Pledge $2,375 or more
    Complete kit. EVERYTHING included, no soldering or wire crimping skills required. Assemble in an afternoon using only basic tools. Includes 1 kg of B9R-1 (Color TBD) resin and shipping within the U.S.

    Once these have been fulfilled he will be selling through his website b9creator.com but he will also be releasing full specs and design data to allow modification and replication by others with different requirements.
  19. DMC
    No Mood

    DMC wheeeeeeeee!!! Donator Sponsors

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    Too cheap to be worth a cent.

    Any decent software for creating automatic support structure, slicing, analyzing of mesh and any bit of "fixing" to prevent crap prints will run you more than a couple thousand alone. Then, add the resin, the projector, etc.... Sounds too good to be true if you ask me.

    I don't see how this could work for that price?

    Amazing, if it does!
  20. Labwa

    Labwa Member Donator

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    It has a tiny build envelope and can only get down to 50 microns right? I wouldn't print at that resolution for dental.

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