Cement turning crown greyish?

[MadmenJJ]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask this kind of question..
Recently, one of Doctor asked me for a re-do of crowns.
Everything was great until it was permanently cemented on patient's mouth.
Right after crown delivery, patient complained that she can see grey bleeding through the crowns.
(It was layered zirconia, cemented with Rely-X)
Doctor suspects the cement is causing this grey problem.
(pt did have dark stump but crown did not have grey issue when it was in pt's mouth for weeks with temporary cement.)

Has anyone heard or experienced this sort of issue or problem?

 

[Drizzt]

What cement was used ? Did he use isolation dam for the cementation procedure ? Was the cement clear , with color, opaque ??

 

[MadmenJJ]

What cement was used ? Did he use isolation dam for the cementation procedure ? Was the cement clear , with color, opaque ??

The doctor told me he used cement called Rely-X.
I honestly do not know specific porcedure on cementation.

 

[user name]

Dual cure cements can turn gray over time. Not positive, but I believe you need to avoid any that use a fluoride ion to initiate the cure. Could also be bacteria if theres any micro leakage.

 

[rkm rdt]

....of course you will have to eat the cost of the remake and accept full responsibility.

 

[Car 54]

I've heard something elsewhere to this effect before: http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/e-max-turned-gray.13553/#post-98020

 

[Patrick Coon]

Most dual/light cure resin cements have a chemical called amine in them that is used as the photo-initiator. This material can have a grey value shift after final cure (usually shows in a week or two, and is discovered at 3-6month recall). We would not suggest using any material containing this material for anterior restorations, especially when the coping is translucent (as most are these days). I also try to move doctors away from using a neutral/translucent cement towards a higher value/more opacious cement to counter-balance this effect if they don't want to change cements for anterior restorations.

If you want a cement that does not have the amines it, the Ivoclar Vivadent VarioLink Esthetic has a new initiator that does not have this shade shift. Have them call there local IV rep to discuss it more in depth.

 

[MadmenJJ]

Thank you.

 

[MadmenJJ]

Thank you.

 

[grantoz]

rely x is a killer for cementing any all ceramic crowns, dentist use it because the blurb says it can be used for all indications and it can this stuff sticks like 5hit to a blanket just one problem it terns the crowns veneers inlay etc grey just like you experienced panavia isnt much better. one of my best clients did a full mouth rehab on his sister about 10 years ago try in paste looked great i checked everything good, he cemented all the crowns in they went from a1 b1 to c1 d2 it was very stressfull for all.we didnt remake the job but it was an elephant in the room for a while luck has it she was in her 60's so it was age appropriate.

 

[2000markpeters]

Do you know if Panavia SA contains amine's?

 

[Patrick Coon]

Do you know if Panavia SA contains amine's?

I can't speak of Panavia directly, but most cements do. Even our Multilink AutoMix cements do, that's why they are mainly recommended for posterior restorations or anterior restorations with more opacious substructures (MO or HO).

 

[MadmenJJ]

Patrick, do you happen to have a cement for both Zirconia & Emax that is opaque enough to block dark stump?

 

[Patrick Coon]

Patrick, do you happen to have a cement for both Zirconia & Emax that is opaque enough to block dark stump?

Not fully for intra oral use.

Zirconia we recommend our SpeedCem plus, it is a "squirt and go" Self-etch/Self-prime cement. This has an opaque option, but it is not fully opaque like our Multilink Hybrid Abutment cement (extra oral use only). But it can help.


Multilink AutoMix has an opacious option as well, but again, not fully opaque like the Multilink Hybrid Abutment. But it can help.

 

[Patrick Coon]

I know I've shared this before, but it can be a great help to you dentists/clients.

Our Cementation Navigation System will guide them towards the most appropriate Ivoclar Vivadent cement for each type of tooth and restoration.

http://www.cementation-navigation.com/en

 

[ZionDental]

Not fully for intra oral use.

Zirconia we recommend our SpeedCem plus, it is a "squirt and go" Self-etch/Self-prime cement. This has an opaque option, but it is not fully opaque like our Multilink Hybrid Abutment cement (extra oral use only). But it can help.
View attachment 27614

Multilink AutoMix has an opacious option as well, but again, not fully opaque like the Multilink Hybrid Abutment. But it can help.
View attachment 27617

View attachment 27619

Is it ok to use the hybrid cement on veneers or anterior crowns for really dark stumps such as ND9 stump shade. will the cement be able to mask the dark color?

 

[Contraluz]

Is it ok to use the hybrid cement on veneers or anterior crowns for really dark stumps such as ND9 stump shade. will the cement be able to mask the dark color?

Multilink Hybrid is not indicated for direct intra oral use!!!

Although it would probably block any dark prep, it would also alter the veneer’s shade to a very high value, ie white...