CubeX2

elpiojoxp

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wow, I allways read in this forum DD liquids are waterbased and not acid...
 
CoolHandLuke

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Can you please share what you change in your process and the "few tweaks" in the sahding guide? Thank you very much! Regards
since Pearlz is me i'll answer this question.

when we began using cubex2 the shading guide was generally creating problems because it was confusing; use A3 to get an A2 shade kind of thing. always the shades were not right. sometimes way light and sometimes irritatingly only slightly wrong.

since that time i sought help from several people on this forum and manufacturers and distributors, eventually we received a New and Updated version of the shade guide that relabeled the liquids to more easily correlate with the desired shade: need A3 dip A3. simple.

except this also included some new incisal effects, and now included "1's" (A1, B1, C1)

so the shade guide was revamped with changes that made it easier to get it right - and with some minor changes here in house that i will not divulge (more related to procedure than actual dipping liquid),we can now more consistently get the right shade.

and yes, it is highly acidic.
 
dentalartslab

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I see the new Dekema Austromat sintering furnace models 664 and 674 are able to speed fire CubeX2. Does anyone know if the can be Speed firing can be achieved in a Sirona InFire Speed oven? It fires Cercon HT in 2hrs just fine. I don't prefer to do a 2hr sinter, however there are instances where the option would be nice to have.
 
Brent Harvey

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I see the new Dekema Austromat sintering furnace models 664 and 674 are able to speed fire CubeX2. Does anyone know if the can be Speed firing can be achieved in a Sirona InFire Speed oven? It fires Cercon HT in 2hrs just fine. I don't prefer to do a 2hr sinter, however there are instances where the option would be nice to have.
you should have no issues doing a speed fire with the Sirona InFire. You just may have issues with pontics but not single units.
 
dentalartslab

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Thanks! For quick response.

I would need a firing schedule to go by. If anyone knows how to speed fire CubeX2 it would be appreciated if you could share the program. Thanks
 
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Yes, does anyone have a speed sintering program that you could share with us? Thanks in advance!
 
BobCDT

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All of the so called "water based" colorants have acid in them. I don't believe there are any with zero acid.
 
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has anyone seen the sirona infire zirc cycle that takes about 2.5 seconds results, it gets quicker everytime i talk to a different dentist thats just had the sirona rep in.the ones i saw looked pretty crappy and i have heard of many broken and cracked crowns.
 
BobCDT

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I do think it may be possible to get sintering of a single crown down to under 15 minutes. By single crown, I mean, sintering just one at a time.
 
dentalartslab

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2.5 secs... lol. It's just a push to get DDSs to be able to do a 1hr zirc crown appointment. They could make more money prepping two crowns in that hour and sending the restorations to us... oh well.


I'll be happy with a 2hr cycle. Anyone know any parameters for speed firing single units it would be appreciated. If people are buying this product they should be able to take advantage of its properties without having to buy a new oven (considering some already have a brand spanking new sinter ovens).
 
rc75

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has anyone seen the sirona infire zirc cycle that takes about 2.5 seconds results, it gets quicker everytime i talk to a different dentist thats just had the sirona rep in.the ones i saw looked pretty crappy and i have heard of many broken and cracked crowns.

One of my buddies has a lab and his neighbor is also a lab & the neighbor kept bragging about his 2 hour cylce with his sirona infire. So I happen to be there as this event took place on a Saturday.
He gives the neighbor a case to fire for him on this 2 hour cycle and man let me tell you....this crown looked absolutely horrible! It was so opaque I was embarrassed for this guy! He still had
the nerve to say ' you see I told you it works great!' :confused:
 
dentalartslab

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One of my buddies has a lab and his neighbor is also a lab & the neighbor kept bragging about his 2 hour cylce with his sirona infire. So I happen to be there as this event took place on a Saturday.
He gives the neighbor a case to fire for him on this 2 hour cycle and man let me tell you....this crown looked absolutely horrible! It was so opaque I was embarrassed for this guy! He still had
the nerve to say ' you see I told you it works great!' :confused:

Yeah, it's pretty obvious when a zirc crown isn't sintered correctly. That's what the CubeX2 looks like when I fire it on the Cercon HT speed fire setting... however, when u fire the Cercon HT with the same speed fire setting it comes out perfect. So it can be done.
It's not rocket science... I just don't want to waste a lot of material figuring out what Temps to use. I already had to waste a lot of material bc of the lack of direction/instruction from Dental Direct. I believe this is the reason many people don't trust this product.
 
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Guys im not talking about the 2 hour cycle, they sirona also talk about the 10-20 minute cycle.they use the sirona zirconia which has a lower strength that gets also weaker the quicker you fire it. Starting strength is about 900mpa and then its down hill from there this is the cycle that the dentist are all interested in and they dont understand when i start laughing.When you start to try and explain heating up and cooling zirconia this quick is not a good thing they either think its sour grapes and that they are on to us or we are stupid sirona also tells the dentist that all zirconia with break if you adjust it and dont resinter so you had better buy one of their high speed furnaces.I have heard this directly from the rep who deals with dentist and i have also heard it from a number of dentists also. The other gem that sirona is putting out there is that the mcx5 can mill a full arch in pmma for screw retained bridges in 40 minutes.
 
Rainbow Machine

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Hello everybody. I have a little problem with CubeX by Dental Direkt. The material is great but have problems with shades. Is someone coloring this material with original Dental Direkt liquids (red ones),and do you have the same result as mine. A little bit greenish! Please if you have the same problem and you solved it please give me an advice. I see great results in this forum. Do you think that is necessаry to change the material for full anatomic crown, and do you think is there better one for same purpose. Thank you in advance.

I am having similar issues with my CubeX - they are coming out a bit grey, maybe greenish. I read one comment to lower the high temp, but are there other thoughts? Do other people have this same issue besides me and Petar? Petar, have you overcome this issue? Thanks!
 
BobCDT

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For gray I would lower the sintering temp. Green is an indication of contamination of the heating elements and or thermocouple. You should run a couple of clean cycles.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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I am having similar issues with my CubeX - they are coming out a bit grey, maybe greenish. I read one comment to lower the high temp, but are there other thoughts? Do other people have this same issue besides me and Petar? Petar, have you overcome this issue? Thanks!
I am with Bob on this one. drop sinter temp 5-10 degrees and try again. I played with cubex a bit when I first started milling. must say I get MUCH better results with other brands of trans zirc. cubex is nice, but its not 'great' for chroma and overall repeatable results, especially with the darker shades. all IMHO, I know some ppl love it
 
BobCDT

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I would suggest dropping the temp 25-30 degrees for next cycle to reduce gray.
For greening we have a Phoenix powder form Dental Direkt that you fire to absorb contaminants. On some occasions the heating elements are so contaminated that purging does not work and the only resolution is to change out the both the heating elements and thermocouple.
 
Rainbow Machine

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I would suggest dropping the temp 25-30 degrees for next cycle to reduce gray.
For greening we have a Phoenix powder form Dental Direkt that you fire to absorb contaminants. On some occasions the heating elements are so contaminated that purging does not work and the only resolution is to change out the both the heating elements and thermocouple.

Thanks, Bob and Sideshowbob for the sintering advice. I did see other comments here saying to sinter at 1515c which I did for a few units last night and it did help reduce the grey. Consequently, this raises the issue that has been compounded by CAP, which perhaps is an issue Bob can address: CAP has told us that the CubeX and CAP Z-Complete can be put into the same sintering cycle. The Z-Complete cycle high temp is at 1550c which now explains why for months we have been having grey CubeX crowns - we were following CAP's advice and have been sintering CubeX way too high, causing our customers to frequently complain about the grey-ness of their crowns. Is it now possible to sinter the ZComplete at 1515c or does that cause issues with a lower mpa? Otherwise, we'll have to split the sintering of cubex and zcomp into two different ovens; prior we were able to get 4 diff zircs into 3 ovens, but now if we have to split the cubex and zcomp, we'll have to drop to 3 zircs in 3 ovens, meaning 1 zirc will have to go......
 
rc75

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@Rainbow Machine I offer Extreme Anterior Zirconia with a recommended sintering temp of 1450 and an MPaof 650.
We sell the ET liquids as well.
 
Patrick Coon

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All of the so called "water based" colorants have acid in them. I don't believe there are any with zero acid.

Agreed, Bob. Even ours (and all others I've seen) that are water based are on the acidic side of the ph scale. What is meant by these claims is that there are no hydrochloric acid or chlorine in the materials. These are what damage the furnaces so quickly.
 

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