Mask a dark stump with e.max on zirconia

[Principefly]

I had a problem on a central tooth where the stump is very dark: the thickness of zirconia coping is 0.5 mm and can not mask the stump.
What material you would use as first layering (after ZirLiner) to overcome this problem?
The final color is a A3.5
I thought of some mass "craft", type the "shade base" of noritake

 

[rkm rdt]

Why does the coping have to be so thin?

 

[charles007]

If I'm told the stump shade is dark, I use a non translucent zirconia, the stronger zirconia's you use on bridges...
I would suggest using another porcelain with more chroma, not emax-ceram, vm9 or CZR...

 

[Principefly]

Why does the coping have to be so thin?

Stump not sufficiently reduced, and the doctor did not want to take the impression one more time

 

[Principefly]

If I told the stump shade is dark, I use a non translucent zirconia, the stronger zirconia's you use on bridges...
I would suggest using another porcelain with more chroma, not emax-ceram, vm9 or CZR...

Charles, Excuse me, I did not understand if you recommend using Vita VM 9 and CZR, or NOT to use it ..

 

[charles007]

Charles, Excuse me, I did not understand if you recommend using Vita VM 9 and CZR, or NOT to use it ..

I would not use emax ceram, vm9 or CZR,,,,,,,
Try GC porcelain
If you use a more opaque zirconia, I think most zirconia porcelains will work.
I use CZR, GC and VM9 & CZR on my 3D shades.........
GC has a lot more chroma and can be layered thinner than VM9, CZR , Ceram.

If you want a really thin crown, stain the frame with GC Lustre as the wash coat and layer with GC........
Should you try this technique, talk to your GC rep for correct firing temps,and don't use the glaze paste on the wash coat... just the colored stains like the L- A shade and other colors.
On dark stumps, I use a white non translucent uncolored zirconia and on my light 3-d shades.... 1m1 as an example with CZR and their Shade Base Stains
CZR Shade Base Stain will color white/uncolored zirconia ok.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Like others have said, I would use a non-translucent Zirconia, and would try to go a little thicker if possible (0.8).

As for layering, if using Ceram start with the Deep Dentin, this will have more chroma and allow you to mask a little better, while developing dentin shade with a thinner layer of the material.

 

[Principefly]

I would not use emax ceram, vm9 or CZR,,,,,,,
Try GC porcelain
If you use a more opaque zirconia, I think most zirconia porcelains will work.
I use CZR, GC and VM9 & CZR on my 3D shades.........
GC has a lot more chroma and can be layered thinner than VM9, CZR , Ceram.

If you want a really thin crown, stain the frame with GC Lustre as the wash coat and layer with GC........
Should you try this technique, talk to your GC rep for correct firing temps,and don't use the glaze paste on the wash coat... just the colored stains like the L- A shade and other colors.
On dark stumps, I use a white non translucent uncolored zirconia on my light 3-d shades.... 1m1 as an example with CZR and their Shade Base Stains
CZR Shade Base Stain will color white/uncolored zirconia ok.

Thank you very much Charles, you've been very exhaustive!

 

[Principefly]

Like others have said, I would use a non-translucent Zirconia, and would try to go a little thicker if possible (0.8).

As for layering, if using Ceram start with the Deep Dentin, this will have more chroma and allow you to mask a little better, while developing dentin shade with a thinner layer of the material.

I used deep dentin after caracterization of framework ,but surely the framework is too much thin.
Thankyou Patrick

 

[charles007]

Patrick is right about using deep dentins, which I forgot about ,,, that alone with an non-tran zir will hit the crown out of the park..
I've learned it doesn't take much thickness in porcelain to match the shade using zir if the underlining core shade and value is correct.....

 

[Principefly]

Like others have said, I would use a non-translucent Zirconia, and would try to go a little thicker if possible (0.8).

As for layering, if using Ceram start with the Deep Dentin, this will have more chroma and allow you to mask a little better, while developing dentin shade with a thinner layer of the material.

Patrick, if I decide to try again to stratify with e.max, what color would you suggest to make the zirconia framework, knowing that I have to get a 3.5?

 

[Patrick Coon]

What brand are you using for your zirconia. With our Wieland materials I would get the Zenotec bridge material, which only comes in pure white. You could have that dipped (Zenotec Color ZR A3) to get a base shade or just use the Zirliner 2 to give you your base shade. I would also design my substructure to only have to layer 0.6 - 0.7mm of ceramic (as long as I had at least 0.7 - 0.8mm of Zirconia to mask the prep).

 

[Principefly]

What brand are you using for your zirconia. With our Wieland materials I would get the Zenotec bridge material, which only comes in pure white. You could have that dipped (Zenotec Color ZR A3) to get a base shade or just use the Zirliner 2 to give you your base shade. I would also design my substructure to only have to layer 0.6 - 0.7mm of ceramic (as long as I had at least 0.7 - 0.8mm of Zirconia to mask the prep).

I do not mill in the lab, I have only the scanner.
Anyway, thank you, I will use a shade lighter as you suggest (and Oliver Brix in his book).

 

[Principefly]

Here we see the very dark color of 11

 

[2thm8kr]

Looks like that tooth has been endo treated. You will be able to mask the dentin discoloration, but you won't be able to do anything about the discoloration right at the gingiva. At least it isn't a bleach shade.

 

[Principefly]

This is biscuit,
I still have to change some form and characterize a little the shade .
Obviously the translucency is not optimal, but having 0.8 mm zirconia,
there remained no much room for layering ceramic.

 

[Raffi M.]

I am working on a case exactly like this one... I didnt want to break my head... just went with a PFM crown.

 

[2thm8kr]

This is biscuit,
I still have to change some form and characterize a little the shade .
Obviously the translucency is not optimal, but having 0.8 mm zirconia,
there remained no much room for layering ceramic.

Not bad for a bisque bake.

 

[Raffi M.]

I have o specifiy that my patient had a color of 1m1 incisal and the prep was a dark gray! So that did not help my cause

 

[DevonR]

This is biscuit,
I still have to change some form and characterize a little the shade .
Obviously the translucency is not optimal, but having 0.8 mm zirconia,
there remained no much room for layering ceramic.

Looks good to me for such a difficult case. His other teeth don't look that great so this tooth will blend in just fine

 

[rkm rdt]

This is biscuit,
I still have to change some form and characterize a little the shade .
Obviously the translucency is not optimal, but having 0.8 mm zirconia,
there remained no much room for layering ceramic.

You don't need to cutback much at the gingival 2/3rds on cases like this.