Bonding Zirconia crown to titanium abutment?

[edohwin]

Hey anyone know if this is possible?

If so, what cements do you guys recommend.


Thanks in advance!

 

[Jo Chen]

Panavia F2

 

[2thm8kr]

Prime the Zr crown with Bisco Zbond. It make a chemical bond to the zr similar to silane for ceramics. Then use ^^^^ .

 

[AltreX]

I sandblast it with Lava Rocotec or simple alumium oxide and then fill it with snot. Winter - snot collecting time
LoL better use Multi link Implant, Multi link hybrid abutment, Hereaus Kulzer Icem, Panavia...

 

[Patrick Coon]

Intraoral - lightly blast (50micron ALOX) both titanium abutment and bonding surface of Zirconia structure, treat both with Monobond Plus for 60 seconds and then air dry, then cement with Multilink Automix (dual cure) (Multilink Implant is no longer available).

Extraorally - lightly blast (50micron ALOX) both titanium abutment and bonding surface of Zirconia structure, treat both with Monobond Plus for 60 seconds and then air dry, then cement with Multilink Hybrid Abutment Cement (self cure only).

 

[edohwin]

thanks guys!

 

[Andrew Priddy]

Panavia... do it all the time

 

[user name]

Intraoral - lightly blast (50micron ALOX) both titanium abutment and bonding surface of Zirconia structure, treat both with Monobond Plus for 60 seconds and then air dry, then cement with Multilink Automix (dual cure) (Multilink Implant is no longer available).

Extraorally - lightly blast (50micron ALOX) both titanium abutment and bonding surface of Zirconia structure, treat both with Monobond Plus for 60 seconds and then air dry, then cement with Multilink Hybrid Abutment Cement (self cure only).

Why the difference in selection?

 

[Patrick Coon]

Why the difference in selection?

The Multilink Hybrid Abutment is self cure only and not FDA approved for intraoral use until after setting.

The Multilink Automix is dual cure and what a dentist would use intraorally on a regular basis.

 

[user name]

The Multilink Hybrid Abutment is self cure only and not FDA approved for intraoral use until after setting.

The Multilink Automix is dual cure and what a dentist would use intraorally on a regular basis.

I get that, but why choose Multilink Hybrid Abutment. Since we're talking about doing it in the lab and not in the mouth, both options are on the table...why not use Automix? Is it because of cost? Is the bond better with self cure only?

 

[rkm rdt]

It may have to do with opacity.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Personally I want one product in the lab and the Multilink Hybrid Abutment Cement comes in a HO (high opacity) option that would work if I wanted to bond Zirconia or Lithium Disilicate (e.max).

Also, from the name of the message thread, it wasn't obvious to me that we were necessarily talking about in the lab. Could have been a question the lab got from a dentist.

 

[cadfan]

Panavia F 2 opak

 

[macminn]

Along these same lines, we've done a couple of these, screw retained, used Multilink Implant and we've had to add a contact after the fact. We ran it up in an oven to break the cement bond, wouldn't budge. Kept raising temps, still nothing. We ended up firing the add on porcelain on it with the crown still cemented, and the sucker would still not come off.

 

[Jason D]

We blast both surfaces with 50 micron alox
monobond s on both surfaces for 1 minute
then multilink hybrid.

with regard to firing after the procedure...they DO come loose but you usually have to apply some pressure to separate the two.
I would NOT send out a case if it had been run up in the oven...

 

[macminn]

We blast both surfaces with 50 micron alox
monobond s on both surfaces for 1 minute
then multilink hybrid.

with regard to firing after the procedure...they DO come loose but you usually have to apply some pressure to separate the two.
I would NOT send out a case if it had been run up in the oven...

We had no choice but to send it out. It's happened twice. We even torqued the implant down on an analog to get more force behind it, still no go. Those things stick!

 

[Jason D]

We had no choice but to send it out. It's happened twice. We even torqued the implant down on an analog to get more force behind it, still no go. Those things stick!

please understand I am not judging you, as I have not been in your position to know the details.

However, I kind of need to object to the statement "we had no choice but to send it out"
You, I we, always have a choice.

I remember years ago my father was showing me a case which he had lost thousands of dollars on... I asked what was wrong, he said the Dentist was simply not qualified to do this kind of case, and that he (my father) had been forced to 'work miracles' to try to compensate. I, being young and slightly less patient than I am today, asked why he would do so much more than the minimum when the dentist clearly would neither see, appreciate nor understand what he had done to save the case.
(My words in fact were something like: "If the dentist gets paid all this money and he didn't take the time to do it right why are you doing so much extra (and losing money) to compensate?")
I will never forget his response: "Because, if we don't take the time and do whats right, then the patient does not get what they deserve. The fact that the dentist did not care to do it right means I am the only person who CAN see to it that the patient is taken care of. The fact that no one involved will know what I did, or might not know what I could have sneaked out, is absolutely meaningless. I know, and that's all that matters."

I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have sat at QC looking at a finished case that has some minor flaw and debating the worth of returning or remaking it, especially when time was short and the flaw was practically insignificant. I CAN tell you however, that every time I kicked the case back or started it over, no matter how much the businessman in me cringed at the lost revenue, the human being in me applauded, knowing I was doing what's right for the patient.

I have called a client and told them I was remaking a case and asked them to reschedule a patient, and simply said "It's not right. The patient might not notice, it might slip past your staff without them realizing, but I know and that's enough for me to decide I'd rather start over and risk disappointing you now rather than to send something out that is not what it should be." (Mind you, we have an on-time or it's free policy so we are giving the case away AND starting it over when something catastrophic happens.) I have never received anything but gratitude from a client when the unthinkable happens.

I know this got a little preachy and I'm sorry for that, I'm not lecturing anyone but I feel very passionately about this and think it's essential for us to protect the credibility of our profession and our labs.

 

[macminn]

Jason, thanks for taking the time to post this. An excellent reminder, that I actually needed today. Been a chaotic week, and this message was very timely.

Thanks bro!

 

[Boksa]

Prime the Zr crown with Bisco Zbond. It make a chemical bond to the zr similar to silane for ceramics. Then use ^^^^ .

Thank you

 

[lcmlabforum]

There is always an option to etch the porcelain and just directly bond composite to it instead of firing porcelain.
Too many old implant crowns end up with open contact after adjacent teeth drifts due to perio, etc.
Cannot be remaking them when crown is otherwise fine.
If brand new crown, I can understand, but clinically, have to be practical when the patient issues prevent
having to remake a new crown after a few years when it was seated fine.
LCM