Zirconia superstructure over ti implant bridge, how to design in 3shape?????

Andy B

Andy B

Member
Full Member
Messages
79
Reaction score
13
Hello i am a bit stuck with trying to design a denture waxup i have done, inhouse mill the waxup in zirconia then cement to a titanium implant bar.
How the heck can i trick the 3shape software into doing this???

I have tried to set the bar scan as a prep, and set the margins around the finish line of the bar, but when the tooth tries to morph to the bar it fails, and i cannot get to the next stage to morph to my waxup.
IMG_2594_zps1b769739.jpg
IMG_2595_zpsffc85ce8.jpg
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
478
Reaction score
212
When you will want something that will work and will be precice, give me a call.
We are able to mill a primary implant bar and do a copy wax of your frame in zirconia that will fit over the first one.
all of that in 1 scan.
 
tomas

tomas

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
197
Reaction score
19
i can desing it on my exo cad .:cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
what an interesting challenge.

well what i might do is create an order marked as Double Preparation. maybe mark a couple teeth and pontics, but ensure to mark everything as having Gingiva. when this is selected you can only scan unsectioned. that's a good thing in this instance.

then it is a matter of sealing the holes, scanning, and marking "teeth" as small spots on the top of the bar. the design software should generate the crowns and pontics too close to the bar though, so bring the pontics as high up off the bar as possible. mark the "gingiva" as the outline of the bar.
 
C

cap_yk

Member
Full Member
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
what about making it a temporary over prepared model? make the waxup a pre-prep and use morph to pre-prep in smile composer. then use "cut to gingiva" in the sculpt stage to create the internal surface. haven't tried the workflow yet, so not 100% sure if the morph to pre-prep will work for that restoration type, but that's what i would try first.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
how would you create an outline around the bar in that case, cap_yk ?
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
478
Reaction score
212
What is your final objective?
Cement the ZR bridge on the bar?
Screw it on the bar?
Use attachement like mk1, swiss lock, other ?

You can try and trick your scanner and software but it will not be very precise trust me.
I can make it friction fit if you want here.
 
C

cap_yk

Member
Full Member
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
how would you create an outline around the bar in that case, cap_yk ?

the "temporary over prepared model" option has an option that's borrowed from pontic design. you ideally design the restoration over your model and then use the "cut to gingiva" function to "subtract" the model from the bridge, thus creating the internal surface. This requires the designer to carefully place the restoration because it will be "free floating" so to speak and the software will not attempt to adapt it to a margin line.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
yes, i am aware of how tht works. my feeling however is that you end up with this kind of scenario



where the red line is where each temp finishes, and the green line showing the edge of the bar.
 
C

cap_yk

Member
Full Member
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
yes, i am aware of how tht works. my feeling however is that you end up with this kind of scenario



where the red line is where each temp finishes, and the green line showing the edge of the bar.

a valid point.. didnt mean to imply you didnt know how it works.. just wasnt sure if i had explained things correctly, so i apologize if i offended you, not my intent. i see your point, his original waxup has the gingiva attached, so if he were to match that in design, he wouldnt have something like the red line in your picture. to make sure, you could always adapt it to where your green line is in the final sculpt stage. again, i have never used this workflow before, it was merely the way i would approach the case personally. not saying this is the end all solution, simply throwin out ideas..
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
it is a valid proposal and i did not mean to make it sound otherwise. i just wondered how you would approach that in the final sculpt stage.
 
JohnWilson

JohnWilson

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
5,487
Reaction score
1,575
If you are trying to do like a biocopy of sorts it will not be easy. I would set it up as temp on uncut and set up all pontics The trick is that your bar has to be milled with a taper that is accurate and any space under the bar should be blocked out down to the tissue on the same taper. I would then free design it back to your preprepscan and you gold.
 
Andy B

Andy B

Member
Full Member
Messages
79
Reaction score
13
Wow thanks everyone for the input, yes thanks bernigts, we have used you before for bars which are fantastic i must say.

This is not a real case just a mock up to see what can be achieved, as there are other companies offering this solution with a friction fit, or 4 degree taper for cement to the ti bar.
I will give the ideas a try and come back with a result (hopefully !)
 
tomas

tomas

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
197
Reaction score
19
How?? I have tried various ways, but no optimal result.


you can send it to me , i can show you how to design it ,

tomorrow i can post some pic . you can konw it very well ,
 
tomas

tomas

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
197
Reaction score
19
OK. Thanks !!
here is my design , diferent from the bars , i think this is same theory , we can design it ,

6433852820141120204418094.png


6433852820141120204241048.png
this is not finish yet , i know i should make deeper primery .

6433852820141120204209087.png


643385282014112020431708.png


:D:D:D:D:DBeerBeerBeerBeerBeer
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
Can't see the pictures:arghh::arghh:
open them in a new tab. works fine.

tomas you have designed an anatomical structure however it is not a structure overtop of a bar. this is not what the original poster requested.
 
dmonwaxa

dmonwaxa

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,740
Reaction score
233
No pics ,,,, rt clicking to open in new tab doesn't work.
 

Similar threads

N
Replies
2
Views
889
njh2104
N
N
Replies
10
Views
1K
Nem12
N
S
Replies
0
Views
464
Smile Designer
S
Top Bottom