Laminating mouth guards

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Toothtechniques

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Still struggling to eliminate bubbles, air being trapped between 1mm & 4/5mm blanks when laminating. I've tried suggested methods, making small holes in first blank prior to pulling down 1mm blank still can't get a bubble free mouth guard.
Any other ideas greatly appreciated
 
JKraver

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Still struggling to eliminate bubbles, air being trapped between 1mm & 4/5mm blanks when laminating. I've tried suggested methods, making small holes in first blank prior to pulling down 1mm blank still can't get a bubble free mouth guard.
Any other ideas greatly appreciated
I don't think this is possible, there will be delamination. No matter how hot I have gotten them they seem to not want to bond. Paint a thin layer of clear acrylic between first and second stage? Monomer will yellow the Essex material. Why don't you just layer clear acrylic on the thermoform.
 
JohnWilson

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Still struggling to eliminate bubbles, air being trapped between 1mm & 4/5mm blanks when laminating. I've tried suggested methods, making small holes in first blank prior to pulling down 1mm blank still can't get a bubble free mouth guard.
Any other ideas greatly appreciated


What machine are you using?
 
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As long as you degreese properly with acetone & preheat first blank you don't have delamination issues.


QUOTE="JKraver, post: 211585, member: 13886"]I don't think this is possible, there will be delamination. No matter how hot I have gotten them they seem to not want to bond. Paint a thin layer of clear acrylic between first and second stage? Monomer will yellow the Essex material. Why don't you just layer clear acrylic on the thermoform.[/QUOTE]
 
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What machine are you using?
Pro form vac former, got a pressure former drufamat but I like to see the 2nd blank being drawn over the first that's why I use the vac forming technique.
 
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ricandiazz

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I too have the same issues; did you ever figure out how to solve the problem? I'm using the Ministar @ 90psi with great lakes thermal forming materials 2mm and 3mm. I have tried the hole puncture technique, acetone, heat gun between layers technique and I still have delamination and or bubbles. Can somebody please elaborate with further details on exactly how to avoid these bubbles. In addition I installed an inline desiccant air dryer and oil remover for the air compressor. Any other suggestions! like better brand materials, equipment and or technique!
 
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Where are your bubbles forming, how big and how many? are they forming in undercut areas?

I trim a groove in the palate so when the foil is formed the air is pushed out and not trapped which causes bubbles. Also trim any excess plaster away from around the model so the foil doesn't have to stretch over this area which will again trap air.

I let the second foil sag so it is just touching the tips of the teeth before pressing (we pressure form).
 
JKraver

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As long as you degreese properly with acetone & preheat first blank you don't have delamination issues.


QUOTE="JKraver, post: 211585, member: 13886"]I don't think this is possible, there will be delamination. No matter how hot I have gotten them they seem to not want to bond. Paint a thin layer of clear acrylic between first and second stage? Monomer will yellow the Essex material. Why don't you just layer clear acrylic on the thermoform.
[/QUOTE]
I was running the wrong hold time, took a course at the FDC.
 
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ricandiazz

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I was running the wrong hold time, took a course at the FDC.[/QUOTE]

Hey can you elaborate on what you meant when you said: "wrong hold time"?
 
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ricandiazz

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Where are your bubbles forming, how big and how many? are they forming in undercut areas?

I trim a groove in the palate so when the foil is formed the air is pushed out and not trapped which causes bubbles. Also trim any excess plaster away from around the model so the foil doesn't have to stretch over this area which will again trap air.

I let the second foil sag so it is just touching the tips of the teeth before pressing (we pressure form).


I wish I could post pictures, but yes Drufomat?
 
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ricandiazz

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Thank you for the advice, I will try that today! But what thermal forming machine do you use? Drufomat? Because with the Ministar I'm not able to allow it to sag.
 
JKraver

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I was running the wrong hold time, took a course at the FDC.

Hey can you elaborate on what you meant when you said: "wrong hold time"?[/QUOTE]
There is a heat time and a hold time. The hold time on second lamination is something like 6+minutes.
 
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ricandiazz

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I thought he was looking for a sports mouth guard, hard softs are great.

I ordered the (Hard/Soft) but when judging your post response I get the impression that you don't think the recommended hard soft product would be the right material for a clear bubbles second layer? I just wanna make sure that I'm purchasing the right materials.
 
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ricandiazz

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Hey can you elaborate on what you meant when you said: "wrong hold time"?
There is a heat time and a hold time. The hold time on second lamination is something like 6+minutes.[/QUOTE]

I'm using the Ministar S Thermal former and in this machine there's only the scanned bar code times for the great Lakes mouth guard materials. So when you say hold time is up to 6 min; are you talking about allowing the first layer to set for over 6 min or allowing the second layer to cool for 6 min. I'm not understanding your hold time reference or maybe its not applicable to my machine. and thank you for your responses your awesome =)
 
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I have a drufomat scan, it heats then presses then holds under pressure then releases. I am not familiar with minister.
 

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